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1857, New South Wales Native Police Force SC Report
Chapter 4, 1856-57 Parliamentary Votes and Proceedings
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1858
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY
NEW SOUTH WALES.
MURDERS BY THE ABORIGINES ON THE DAWSON RIVER.
REPORT FROM THE SELECT COMMITTEE
ON
MURDERS BY THE ABORIGINES ON THE
DAWSON RIVER;
TOGETHER WITH
THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE,
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,
AND APPENDIX.
ORDERED BY THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY TO BE PRINTED,
3 August, 1858.
SYDNEY:
PRINTED BY WILLIAM HANSON, GOVERNMENT PRINTER,
PHILLIP-STREET.
1858.
CONTENTS
Extracts from the Votes and Proceedings 3
Report 5
Proceedings of the Committee....................8
List of Witnesses........................................12
List of Appendices..................................................12
List of Separate Appendix......................... 12
Minutes of Evidence..........;.........................13
Separate Appendix.................................... 55
EXTRACTS FROM THE VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.
Votes, .No. 44, Tuesday, 15 June, 1858.
7. Murders by the Aborigines on the Dawson River:—Mr. Hodgson moved, pursuant to amended notice,—
(I.) That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into and report upon the murders which have recently taken place on the "Dawson River," with a view to render the working of the Native Police Force more efficient, and with power to send for persons and papers.
(2.) That such Committee consist of Mr. Buckley, Mr. Cribb, Mr. Donaldson, Mr Forster, Mr. Jones, Mr. Richardson, Mr. Smith, Mr. Taylor, Mr. Robertson, and the Mover.
Debate ensued.
Mr. Parkes moved, That the Question be amended, by the omission of all the words thereof following the words " Dawson River," in section (1), with a view to the insertion in their place of the words " and generally on the state of outrage between the white population and the Aborigines in the Northern Districts. " (2) That such Committee consist of Mr. Cribb, Mr. Dalley, Mr. Dickson, Mr. Donaldson, Mr. Cowper, Mr. Gordon, Mr. Jones, Mr. Murray, Mr. Smith, and Mr. Hodgson. Debate continued,—
And the proposed Amendment being, by consent, amended, by adding at the end of the words proposed to be inserted in lieu of the words proposed to be omitted from section (1) the words " with a view to providing for the better protection of life and property," Debate continued,—
And Mr. Hodgson having required, in event of the Amendment being carried, that the Committee be appointed by ballot,
Question,—That the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the Question,—put and negatived.
Question,—That in place of the words omitted there be inserted the words " and " generally on the state of outrage between the white population and the Aborigines in the Northern Districts, with a view to providing for the better protection of life and property,"—put and passed.
Question,—That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into and report upon the murders which have recently taken place on the Dawson River, and generally on the state of outrage between the white population and the Aborigines in the Northern Districts, with a view to providing for the better protection of life and property,—put and passed;—
Whereupon the House proceeded to the Ballot, and the Speaker declared the following Members to be, with the Mover, the Committee duly appointed, vis.:—Mr. Cribb, Mr. Donaldson, Mr. Jones, Mr. Cowper, Mr. Buckley, Mr. Forster, Mr. Richardson, Mr. Smith, and Mr. Taylor.
Votes, No. 57. Tuesday, 13 JULY, 1858.
1. The House met pursuant to adjournment; the Speaker took the Chair.
Papers:—
* * * * * * * * *
4. Mr. Cowper laid upon the Table the undermentioned Paper :—
(6.) Letter from the Government Resident at Brisbane, Moreton Bay, dated 8th July, 1868, enclosing Returns of the expense, strength, and distribution of the Native Police.
Ordered to be printed, and referred to the 8elect Committee on Murders by the Aborigines on the Dawson River.
VOTES, No. 59. THURSDAY 15 JULY, 1858.
1. Papers:—Mr. Cowper laid upon the Table the undermentioned Papers:—
* * * * * * * * *
(3.) .Return to the Order, in reference to the dismissal of Mr. Ross, Second Lieutenant - of Native Police, made by this House, on motion of Mr. Hodgson, on the 21st May last. Referred to the Select Committee on Murders by Aborigines on the Dawson River.
Votes, No. 65. Tuesday, 27 July, 1858.
1. Paper:—Mr. Cowper laid upon the Table a communication from Captain Wickham, Government Resident at Moreton Bay, dated 21st July, 1858, in reference to the Native Police.
Ordered to be printed, and referred to the Select Committee on Murders by Aborigines on the Dawson River. -
Votes, No. 69. Tuesday, 3 August, 1858.
7. Murders by the Aborigines on the Dawson River:—Mr. Hodgson, as Chairman, brought up the Report from, and laid upon the Table the Evidence taken before the Select Committee appointed, on the 15th Jane last, to inquire into, and report upon, the Murders which have recently taken place on the Dawson River, and generally on the state of outrage between the white population and the aborigines in the Northern Districts, with a view to providing for the better protection of life and property.
Ordered to be printed.
1858.
MURDERS BY THE AB0R1GINES OR THE DAWSON RIVER,
REPORT.
The Select Committee of the Legislative Assembly, appointed on the 15th June last
" to inquire into and report upon the Murders which have recently taken place on the Dawson River, and generally on the state of outrage between the white population and the aborigines in the Northern Districts, with a view to providing for the better protection of life and property"; and to whom were referred, on tie 13th ultimo, a Letter from the Government Resident at Brisbane, Moreton Bay, dated 8lh July 1858, enclosing Returns of the expense, strength, and distribution of the Native Police ; on the 15th ultimo, a Return to Order in reference to the dismissal of Mr. Ross, Second Lieutenant of Native Police and, on the 27th.Ultimo, a further communication from Captain Wickham, Government Resident at Moreton Bay, dated 21st July, 1858, in reference to the Native Police;—have agreed to the following Report:—
Your Committee are convinced, by the evidence of the various witnesses examined, that the murders which have been committed on the Northern Frontier of this Colony may be attributed to those inevitable collisions which take place more or lees between the blacks and whites in opening out a new tract of country, aggravated in a great measure by the inefficiency of the Native Police .Force, and the mountainous and scrubby nature of the district.
It will further appear that the sudden disbandment of a large portion of the Native Police was a most untoward event, as there is too much reason to believe that the disbanded troopers have been leaders in most of the murderous attacks upon the whites, and to this cause the inefficiency of the Native Police Force, as at present constituted, may be undoubtedly traced. It appears also that the troopers who did such good service from 1848 to 1852, under their late Commandant, Mr. Walker, on the M'Intyre, and other places, were brought from the Murrumbidgee, Murray, and Edward Rivers; and it is conclusive that the conduct of these men was the cause of the force enjoying that high character which it is deeply to be regretted it no longer possesses.
After a careful consideration of the evidence taken, your Committee would submit the following recommendations for the favorable consideration of your Honorable House :—
(1) That the Native Police Force, properly organized and well officered, is the force best capable of protecting life and property in the outlying districts; and an attempt to amalgamate white troopers with such a force would probably be futile, as in almost every instance the natives, after perpetrating an outrage, take refuge in the scrubs, which are inaccessible to horses, and where, except in certain instances, none but native troopers could follow and overtake them. To discipline a mixed force of this kind would, moreover, be a difficult task, as considerable jealousy would undoubtedly arise, and would generally result in the white troopers compelling the native troopers to act as their servants, and do all the more menial work.
(2.) Your Committee would, however, recommend that ten mounted troopers should be immediately forwarded, by steamer, to Brisbane or Maryborough, and there placed under the orders of the Commandant, with instructions to that officer that these men are not to be amalgamated with the Native Police Force, but are to patrol the districts in two or. more parties, more especially in the open country, where they could, from time to time, render good service ; as they are of opinion that the existence of such a force would soon be known, and would act as a salutary check,
(3.) Your Committee forbear to recommend the supplementing of the present Native Police Force by a Militia of Border Settlers, but would suggest that two sections for the present should be permanently stationed on the frontier, in the neighboured of Taroom, under the command of two experienced officers, fully authorised to enter into such offensive or defensive operations as they may consider necessary.
(4.) Your Committee are of opinion that the system of recruiting in the Northern Districts is most pernicious, and has led, and will continue to lead, to the most mischievous results - wholesale desertion having, in consequence, taken place. All the witnesses agree that troopers should be raised from distant parts of the Colony, not less than 500 or 600 miles away from the district in which they are to act; and one highly intelligent witness recommends that the troopers should be placed under military law, so that it might be possible in future to keep them under better subordination—a proposal in which your Committee fully concur.
(5)Your Committee would further recommend that instructions be immediately forwarded to the Commandant to send a party to the Lower Darling, Edward, and Murray Rivers, with horses and clothing, with the view of recruiting for the completion of the Force without delay.
(6.) Your Committee are of opinion that the present Commandant should be allowed the opportunity of carrying out the work which, under many disadvantages, he appears to have so well commenced. That the process of reorganization must require time; for, although much has already been done, a considerable period must necessarily elapse before the Force assumes its proper and most useful element—that of a preventive character—sufficiently numerous and active to check and overawe the blacks in their aggressions upon the settlers.
(7.) No evidence has been adduced to lead your Committee to the conclusion that the Native Police Force cannot be restored to that state of efficiency to which it at one time attained,; and from a perusal of the two letters from the Government Resident at Brisbane} referred for their consideration on the 20th and 27th ultimo, it would appear that the Force has now been increased to the number of 92, and that, consequently, some efforts are being made to revive the corps.
(8) By certain returns transmitted in the communication of the Government Resident of the 20th ultimo, the present number of officers, including the Commandant, is-shewn to amount to 16, some of whom are apparently useless; and the services of these should be immediately dispensed with, and the number of officers might have be reduced to 13.
(9.) All the evidence taken tends to affirm the fact, that many persons have been injudiciously placed in the force as Lieutenants, by the Government, totally incompetent, from various causes, to render any service; your Committee would therefore strongly urge that the recommendations of the Select Committee of 1856-7 should be carried out with regard to the appointment and dismissal by the Commandant of all his subordinate officers, and that the Government should interfere as little as possible in such appointments.,
(10.) Your Committee have had under their careful consideration the evidence of the Commissioner of Crown Lands at Port Curtis, more particularly as to the future site of the head quarters of the Native Police Force, but are of opinion that his suggestion cannot be carried out, not only on the ground of expense, but because as the country becomes occupied and the settlers push out, the head-quarters should be moved to the most central place, and ought, therefore, to be only temporary.
(11.) Your Committee are of opinion that the head-quarters of tho Commandant of the Native Police should for the present be fixed about 100 miles north west of Gayndah, on account of its central position as regards the distribution of the Force. The presence of the Commandant at Brisbane appears, however, to be altogether unnecessary; but they consider that the Secretary ought to be stationed there, through whom the correspondence and payments could then lie transacted, subject, as at present, to the control and supervision of the Government Resident, who fills the important offices of Treasurer and Paymaster. The greater facilities of communication with Sydney and tho Dawson, and the absence of any Banking Establishment at Wide Bay or Port Curtis, induce your Committee to recommend Brisbane as the residence of the Secretary and Accountant.
(12.) As it is clearly shewn by the evidence that the Native Police Force is no longer required in the Clarence River District, your Committee would recommend the immediate withdrawal of Lieutenant Dempster and his troopers therefrom.
(13.) Your Committee consider that the pay of the Native Troopers should be increased from 5d.(5 pence) to 8d. (8 pence) per diem ; the additional expense to be met by the contemplated reduction of three officers.
(14 ) After carefully perusing the papers connected with the dismissal of Lieutenant Ross from the Native Police, referred for their consideration, your Committee can see no reason to disturb the opinion which has been arrived at by the Executive Government in the matter.
In bringing their labors to a close, your Committee desire to state that they feel satisfied that the efforts now being made are well calculated to allay those feelings of alarm and apprehension which have been so long prevalent in the unhappy district of the Leichhardt; and whilst they repudiate, in the strongest terms, any attempt to wage a war of extermination against the Aborigines, they are satisfied that there is no alternative but to carry matters through with a strong hand and punish with necessary severity all future outrages upon life and property, in order that the sanguinary conflicts between the native blacks and the settlers may for the future be avoided.
ARTHUR HODGSON,
Chairman.
Legislative Assembly Chamber,
Sydney, 3rd August, 1858.
1858.
Legislative Assembly
NEW SOUTH WALES.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE
TAKEN BEFORE
THE SELECT COMMITTEE
ON THE
MURDERS BY THE ABORIGINALS ON THE DAWSON RIVER.
THURSDAY, 17 JUNE, 1858.
MR.. HODGSON, Mr. TAYLOR, MR. COWPER, MR. JONE3,
Mr. RICHARDSON, MR. CRIBB,
MR. BUCKLEY, Mr. DONALDSON.
ARTHUR HODGSON, Esq., in the Chair.
Captain Maurice Charles O'Connell, called id and examined:—
1. By the Chairman : You are Commissioner of Crown Lands for the District of Port Curtis ? Yes.
2. You have been there some time ? Rather more than four years.
3. You resided previously in the Burnett District? Ye3; for five or six years. It is ten years altogether since I first was stationed frontier of occupation.
4. You have had many opportunities of seeing the working of the Native Police Force ? Yes.
5. Under Mr. Walker ? Under Mr. Walker, and since his removal from the command.
6. By Mr. Cowper: In fact, Port Curtis was the head-quarters of the force ? No; it never was head-quarters. I had control, when I first went up there, of the detachment that belonged to the Port Curtis District.
7. By the Chairman: Do you consider the Native Police Force, as at present constituted,. efficient? Certainly not, at the present moment. It is very inefficient. It seems to have broken down from a want of any proper system of organization. When I first saw the Native Police, as originally raised by Mr. Walker, it struck me that he had worked a change and improvement in the aborigines I was hardly prepared to think they were capable of; he had got them into very creditable order; but since his removal from the command, as far as my observation goes, the men are not kept together under proper discipline, or with sufficient obedience to their officers, or even sufficient regard for them. At present it seems almost impossible to keep the newly raised recruits attached to the corps. I believe, in several instances, they have been deserting in considerable numbers.
8. Can you inform the Committee where the recruits come from ? I cannot. I know nothing on that point, except from hearsay.
9. Do you think they come from the neighbouring district, or from remote districts of the Colony? I have understood that some who have been brought to the Port Curtis district were recruited in the Wide Bay district, which is the adjoining one, and these men, very shortly after their arrival on the Fitz Roy, deserted.
10. Do you not think that would be a very probable consequence of their being employed so near their own district? I think it is very difficult to keep aborigines in the neighbourhood of their own tribes.
11. By Mr. Richardson: Yon think recruits should not be obtained from the neighbouring tribes? I do.
12, Do you think it would be desirable to get them from distant districts, such as the Murrumbidgee and Murray ? Yes, or from the Namoi or Gwydir, or other distant districts.
13. Do you think the body can be rendered efficient at all on the present system ? I do not think they can, without a considerable change of system.
14. By the Chairman: Would yon be kind enough to favor the Committee with your ideas as to what is necessary for the reformation of the present system? It appears to me that the great want of the present system is a proper organization. Neither men nor officers are trained to their duty, so as to understand what they have to do when called upon to perform it. The officers have not that control over the men which they ought to have ; and there is no esprit de corps. The duty is a particularly harassing and unpleasant one, and there is nothing to induce the the zealous performance of it beyond the bare fact of its being a duty.
15. Could you propose any remedy ? The only plan which has occurred to me, as one which would be at all likely to be effectual, is that of raising a force under a law which, somewhat on the example of the Mutiny Act, shall compel a due observance of discipline, and prevent desertion. I think, under such a law, there ought to be a number of white troopers enlisted, in the proportion of one white; man to two blacks; and in that way an efficient working corps would be created. I do not think the expense would be much greater than it is at present; and a body of men could be thus raised and disciplined who would really be useful.
16. Would you not prefer that the white troopers should preponderate? I would, provided the expense was not considered too great; but I think a force composed of one-third whites to two-thirds natives would be efficient, and, at the same time, much less expensive than a larger proportion of white men.
17. You recommend these proportions solely on the ground of expense ? Solely on the ground of expense. In some parts of the country the native troopers arc much more efficient than white men would be in following up and punishing the blacks for outrages committed, because they can follow them into the scrubs with greater facility—for instance, the scrubs of the Mackenzie and Upper Dawson ; but, in all ordinary cases, I think a corps of white men with black trackers would be the most efficient.
18. By Mr. Cowper: In these scrubs you speak of, do you contemplate the Native Police being allowed to penetrate and murder the blacks, apart from their officers? No; I think such a system would be very objectionable. It is frequently the habit of the blacks, when they have committed an outrage or murder, to seek shelter of the border of a large scrub and when they find themselves attacked they immediately disappear in the interior of the scrub; they have then to be followed, and in the pursuit the natives will, in all probability, get in advance of any white men who may be with them, though I have heard of cases where white men Mr. Walker, for instance—managed to keep up with them all through the scrub.
19. By the Chairman : There are open spots frequently in these scrubs ? Yes, often. The Native Police are in the habit of throwing off their clothes and entering the scrub with nothing but their accoutrements—their ammunition and carbine. They have a quicker eye, and they follow the blacks with greater certainty; they pick up a track with a sort of instinct, which guides them unerringly, from early habit, and which the white man does not possess.
520. By Mr. Cowper: You have a division of the Native Police at Gladstone, under Lieutenant Murray ? Yes.
21. Were they often called out? Not when we first went there. I can tell you what happened when I first went up there, or very soon after Mr. Walker's removal took place. Mr. Murray reported to me that his men were all going away; that they had stated to him their intention of going to see Mr. Walker, and that they were, in point of fact, going to desert.
22. By Mr. Jones ; Was any cause assigned ? They said it was on account of Mr. Walker's removal from the command.
23. By Mr. Cowper: On account of their personal attachment to him? Yes; he having raised them. I asked Mr. Murray if be thought there would be any use in my speaking to the men. He said be thought it might have some effect; and, I directed him to have his men paraded. I then put on my uniform, and role out to endeavour to induce them to remain— because it was a matter of serious importance to us at that time, as we were then on an unoccupied part of the coast, surrounded by wild tribes, with a large extent of vacant country intervening between us and the nearest settlements; and had they left us, we should have found it very difficult to communicate with, the settled portion of the country. On speaking to the men, I found they stated very reasonably their causes for dissatisfaction. They said they had been promised by Mr. Walker that after a certain time they should be taken back to their own country again to see their friends and relatives, and that they had now been five years in the force, and they were determined to go in. I could not prevail on them to change their intention, until I remarked to them that the country they were serving—it was the time the Russian war had just broken out— was then at war with other white people, and that it was disgraceful thing on their parts to desert us at such a time. I pointed out that we were then on the coast where our white enemies might attack us, and we might suffer from the want of their aid ; and they took the idea immediately, and declared that under the circumstance they would remain, and they even followed me into Gladstone, to express more strongly their determination to do so. I mention this, as I think it a strong proof that these aboriginals are capable of generous impulses; and they did remain until about two years afterwards. The force was in the meantime removed from my control; and I may here say, that I think these men were subsequently very unjustly discharged. On the occasion I speak of, I promised them that the Government would find them the means of getting back to their own districts on horseback- I reported this to Sir Charles Fitz Roy, and received a confirmation of my pledge and yet afterwards that pledge was broken, and the men were discharged to find their way on foot to their own country. I believe they committed many depredations on the road.
24. By Mr. Jones: These men did not desert ? No; they were discharged.25. The Government actually broke faith with them twice, Mr. Walker having, previously to your promise to them, undertaken on the part of the Government to return them to their own country—you have no reason to doubt that statement ? No ; but I do not think there was any time fixed by Mr. Walker, so that we cannot say it was a breach of faith.
26. Did yon ever ascertain from Mr. Walker at what time he had undertaken to return them ? No.
27. You yourself, however, gave them a distinct promise, and that promise was never fulfilled ? Yes; that pledge was broken. I reported the circumstances to Mr. Parker, who was Colonial Secretary, I think, at the time ; but we were so distant, and tho correspondence was so long on the road, that it was too late to do anything in the way of remedy by the time it came to a conclusion.
. 28. By Mr. Cowper: Bo you know what became of these men ? I wrote to the officer at the Condamine, to beg that he would find means of support fur them to the extent of £20, pending my reference of the matter to the Government in Sydney, and I would be answerable for that amount myself; but he wrote back to me to say that they had been about his place, and had been committing depredations—that they had fired at a woman, and had been stealing ammunition at the huts ; some of them, he said, had joined his force, but bad behaved very badly after joining, and he did not know where the others were gone.
29. By the Chairman : Do you know whether any personal attachment exists between the present Commandant and his troopers? I have no means of forming an opinion on this point.
30. Do you know the feeling amongst the squatters in the northern districts with regard to the Native Police Force ? From expressions I have heard, I believe the squatters, generally, are not satisfied with the working of the corps. I presume they cannot be, for in my part of the country there arc no men—or at least not sufficient to be of service,
31. By Mr. Cowper: Has Mr. Murray no men with him ? I am not sure of the strength of his detachment at the present moment, but for the last two years it has been considerably under its proper number. When I left Port Curtis, twelve men lately recruited had just gone to the Fitz Roy, and I have since heard they have deserted.
32. By Mr. Junes : What was the strength of Mr. Murray's Force at the time you left ? He has had very few men for the last year and a half. I do not think there are more than four or five men at Gladstone now.
33. By Mr. Richardson: Have the settlers themselves proposed any plan for the reorganization of the Native Police ? I have heard so many different opinions, that I could not say what is the general opinion among the squatters.
34. By Mr. Cowper ; Have you ever sustained any attacks on the part of the blacks yourself ? Never.
35. Have there been any attacks within your district? Within fourteen miles of Gladstone, at Mr. Young's station, they killed everybody on the place except a black boy; and within the last year they killed three men on Mr Tolson's station, and wounded him.
36. By the Chairman : Have you understood that the squatters are not disposed to co-operate with the Native Police ? I have never observed anything of the sort myself.
37. Are yon personally aware how Mr. Walker is employed: at the present time? I am not.
38. By Mr. Cowper : Have you considered this matter sufficiently to enable you to make .any suggestions to the Committee, which you think would advance the reconstruction of the Native Police Force, or the construction of a force in lieu of it? I do not think it possible to reconstruct the Native Police Force on the present system. I think any such attempt would be likely to end in mischief, from the mixture of the old material with the new. I think, to do anything effectual you must originate a new system; and until the new one can be put in operation, it should be kept entirely separate from the old. To lay down what I believe desirable for a new system, Would perhaps require longer time than the Committee are now inclined to afford me ; but I may state that I propose to lay before the Committee, at another opportunity, a paper containing a design of that which I suppose to be the best mode of forming another corps. (Vide Appendix A.)
39. By the Chairman ; Leaving expense out of the question, what number of white men would yon employ in conjunction with the Native Police, in order to make the force as efficient as possible? Supposing the force to consist altogether of one hundred and twenty men—a number which the last Committee presumed to be sufficient—I should say there should be forty white troopers and eighty aboriginal troopers, independently of staff sergeants, and a number of bat men.
40. You think a force of whites and natives combined in those proportions would work efficiently ? I think so ; bat it must first be properly organized before it is put to work. The great fault of the present system seems to me to be that there is no organization. The men are taken from the bush, and the officers are selected from other walks in life, and the two are pat together and told to perform certain duties for which they have had no previous training, and they feel that awkwardness which all men naturally feel who do not understand their duty.
41. By Mr. Cowper: Is not the proportion you name, of eighty blacks to forty whites, rather at variance with the idea of using the blacks merely as trackers? I only propose these proportions for the sake of economy ; but still I think the intelligence of the whites, combined with the physical force which such a number of natives would give, would make it work as an effective force, and they would be able to accomplish many duties they cannot perform now, such as the execution of warrants, &c. An intelligent white sergeant, with two aboriginal native troopers with him could perform many duties that half-a-dozen native troopers alone could not perform, and many services which one white constable would not be able by himself to accomplish.
42. By Mr. Richardson: Keeping expense out of the question, would it not be as well to have two white men to one black ? I think it would be better. If expense is not an object, I think the larger proportion of whites would make it a more effective force.
43. By the Chairman: Are you at all aware of the number of the force at present? No, I am not.
44. Are you at all aware of the difficulty the present Commandant has in increasing the force? 1 am not; but I presume there must be great difficulty in recruiting, from the native troopers being so scarce in the Port Curtis District. In order to induce the men to remain in the service, I think it would be a great advantage to give a band at head-quarters, and all the paraphernalia of a regiment to this corps. Where it is all hard work and no play, you must do something to induce the men to join. It would tend to induce an esprit de corps.
45. You have not yourself been resident in any districts where the blacks have been committing outrages ? Yes; in the Burnett.
46. Were they very mischievous there at the time of your residence? They killed a number of men in different parts of the district. I think some twenty were killed in the space of five years.
47. By the Chairman : Could you give the Committee any idea of the extent of country in length over which you consider a protective force necessary ? If I had one of the maps shewing the Electoral Districts as proposed, I think I could explain to the Committee what I think are the best positions in which to locate detachments of the force. (.4 map being produced, the witness proceeded to point out the various positions which, in his opinion, the force should occupy.) The country to be protected would be about four hundred miles in length, by about 150 or 200 in breadth. I think there is a very good position for a central depot on the Calliope, where Mr. Walker himself once fixed on a spot for head-quarters. The situation is one from which most of the different districts, cow that occupation has progressed to the north, could be relieved periodically with the greatest ease. There might, I think, be out-stations at Taroom, Rannes, the Fitz Roy, Maryborough, Brisbane, Nanango, and at the Condamine—in all seven stations, independently of the central one. The object of the central depot is to have some place where the force could be organized—where the recruits could be trained, and from whence relief might be sent to the out-stations as required. It is absolutely necessary, in my opinion, to bring in the men from the outlying stations to head-quarters at certain intervals, in order that they may have their horses, clothing, saddlery, arms, and so on looked to, and that they may have a certain period of rest. I think also that there should be a system of constant patrolling kept up by all the different sections, so that the blacks in the intermediate country might be kept in awe. That would be likely to prevent a good deal of mischief. I am convinced an efficient system of patrol is the only way to work the force in a proper manner.
48. By Mr. Cowper: Is it not the fact that these outbreaks are chiefly confined to one district at any one time. For instance, it now appears that the Upper Dawson is the district in which the blacks are most threatening—would it not therefore be better to concentrate in that particular district a powerful force, rather than to have a number of stations scattered over a wide extent of country ? The object of a depot would be, that you might at once mass a large force on any given point. I propose that there should always be a considerable number—say thirty men—at head-quarters, and in the event of outbreaks similar to that on the Upper Dawson, the whole of these men could be moved to the spot at once, and other parties might likewise be moved towards the same point. In this way a large amount of force could be brought to bear on any disturbed district, until the outrages had been put an end to.
49. By the Chairman :. Your plan would involve the erection of barracks? At the headquarters, certainly.
50. Not at the out-lying stations ? I am not prepared to say that. I think the officers ought to have quarters; it is hard work for Europeans to compel them to sleep out every night, year after year.
51. Are they not well received at the different stations ? Yes, I believe they are; but I think it would be as well they should stop with their men.
52. Do you think the amalgamation of white and native troopers would bring about much jealousy on the part of the latter? I think not.
53 Not even though the white men should be made sergeants and leading men in each division? I think not. They would, of course, require selection. It would be necessary to make a selection of those who wore best adapted by nature to govern and lead the blacks. It is not every man. who is fitted by disposition and intelligence to command the respect and attention of the blacks.
54. Do you consider the. number of officers now employed—seventeen—excessive or not? They would be decidedly too many under the system I recommend. But I recollect now that most of the officers at present are merely substitutes for sergeants. The men formerly employed as sergeants were found to be of such bad character that it was difficult to keep them in order, as they were not enlisted under any law ; and one of the Commandants—I think Mr. Marshall—fancied it would be bettor to get young men of education, who should be called officers, but do the duty of sergeants Under that view there are not too many.
55. Can you tell the Committee whether that idea of Mr. Marshall's has been carried out with any effect ? I think not. I do not think it has answered the purpose.
56. By Mr. Jones : Have you ever been concerned with black troopers in any engagement with the aborigines ? No.
57. Have you ever heard any statement, or authority on which you can rely, as to the general conduct of the black troopers when they have been engaged with blacks who have committed depredations—I mean as to whether they exhibit undue ferocity ? I do not believe they are at all imbued with any feeling of humanity, as far as consideration for human life is concerned.
68. You do not believe they would act with the same circumspection in a case of that kind that the white troopers would ? No; I believe they are quite beyond the control of their officers when once let loose.
59 You think in engagements of this kind the black troopers would take life more recklessly than white troopers would do ? I think so.
60. Do you think they would exercise any discrimination between the males and women of the tribes on whom they make attacks in these cases? I cannot give an answer on that point from any personal observation. I do not know whether they would themselves have any hesitation in sacrificing the lives of females; but I incline to think they would avoid doing so.
61. By the Chairman : Do you not know that in the skirmishes which do take place the black women are invariably saved—that they are not killed except by accident? I believe that where it is possible the women are saved ; but in an indiscriminate attack they may accidentally get shot.
62. By Mr. Jones : Do you think the native troopers would, as white men would do; avoid destroying the women in such a case ? I think they would. I do not think they would voluntarily shoot the women.
63. But you believe that, as compared with white men, they would be reckless in taking the lives of the male blacks ? Quite so. I do not think they ought to to trusted by themselves.
64. You think it would not be safe to employ them, I unless in conjunction with a sufficient number of white men to keep them in check ? Just so.
65. By Mr Richardson : You think it undesirable that the blacks should preponderate so much as they do ? Decidedly.
66. By Mr. Jones: What is the ordinary conduct and demeanor of the native troopers towards the neighbouring tribes when not actively engaged against them ? I think, whilst under control, their conduct is very good; but if not restrained, I believe they would seize upon the women of the neighbouring tribes, and would in a very short time become exceedingly troublesome in consequence. I had ad instance of the sort myself; but I put a stop to it at once. When I first allowed the wild blacks to come into my camp at Port Curtis they soon complained that the Native Police had taken one of their women. It caused great excitement amongst them, and I immediately rode out to the police camp, and requested Mr. Murray to parade his men. When that was done I told them the woman must be returned by sundown. Mr. Murray's men indignantly denied that they had had anything to do with it, but said the woman had been taken by a trooper who had come down on escort from Rannes; and they promised they would have the woman returned, which they did.
67. Do you think that, with regard to the women, there would be any material difference between the conduct of the black troopers and of the white troopers—that the conduct of the blacks would be worse than that of the whites under the like circumstances? I think so, decidedly. It would be more easy to keep white men under control in that matter.
6S. Taking into consideration the average character of the officers whose services we may expect to secure, do you think it possible to ensure a proper state of discipline where the force consists exclusively of native troopers ? I should say it is very difficult to do so ; there are few men I should consider competent to control such a force.
69. It would, I apprehend, be much easier to insure a proper state of discipline in a force composed mainly of whites, than in one consisting entirely of blacks ? Of course; but there must be a stringent law to govern even the whites.
70. With or without such a law it would, as a rule, be easier for the officers to manage whites than to manage blacks ? That would depend a good deal on the temptation to which they are subject. I think a number of white men collected together under circumstances of temptation, without a law to govern them, subject merely to their own ideas of right and wrong, with no penalty but dismissal, would be rather more difficult to retain under any strict discipline than a similar number of blacks.
71. But, under such a law as you speak of, you think there would be comparatively little difficulty in managing a force of white men ? Quite so.
72. While the management of the blacks would depend on the tact and skill of their officer ? Entirely on his personal character.
73. What do you regard as the relative value of white and black troopers in a case of this kind :—Say it requires a force of one hundred blacks fur the protection of a certain district, what number of white men would you consider equal to the same amount of duty ? I do not think any great difference could be made in the numbers, because having in all these cases a large tract of country to cover, you would, I think, require nearly the same number of one description as the other.
74. In the event of disturbances leading to engagements with the wild tribes, would you not consider a force of ten white men equal to the work of twice that number of blacks ? You mean blacks by themselves ?
75. Blacks, with one white officer to lead them. Would not an officer go into an engagement with ten white men with the same confidence as with double the number of blacks? I think not in these peculiar districts. I think an officer accustomed to the blacks would feel himself quite as confident as if he bad an equal number of whites.
76. Then, if the character of the force be changed by the introduction of a larger proportion of whites, you do not think it would be wise to diminish the total number of the force on that account ? I think not. The amount of physical force required to bring an engagement to a successful issue would be much the same, whether whites or blacks be employed ; but the introduction of a larger number of whites into the force would make it more efficient by increasing its moral power ; because the whites could perform many duties which require a certain amount of intelligence and education, but to which blacks alone would be quite incompetent. For instance, one white man and two blacks would make an efficient patrolling party; but you could hardly trust three ordinary black troopers by themselves as a detachment for a similar purpose.
77.By Mr. Cribb: Do you not think a force of eight white troopers, with two blacks as trackers, would be more efficient than an ordinary troop of twelve black troopers with one officer to lead them ? They would be more efficient for many purposes, but for the purpose of following up and punishing blacks who had committed outrage, I do not think they would.
78. Would they not be more under control ? If you are talking of the force as it at present exists, I grant that the whites would be more efficient; but if the black troopers were under a proper system, and as well disciplined as they should be, and certainly were under Mr. Walker, I think twelve of these would be as efficient for that particular purpose as eight whites and two black trackers.
7.0. Taking the force as it at present exists, would not eight whites and two blacks be more efficient than twelve blacks under their present officers ? Decidedly more efficient than the present force.
80. By Mr Jones: Do you not think the black tribes would stand more in awe of a force composed mainly of white men ? No ; they are desperately afraid of the Native Police.
81. By Mr. Buckley: Do you think white troopers would he able to follow the blacks through scrubs of the same density as black troopers would get through after them ? No; I say they would not in that peculiar country.
82. In attacking the blacks, it frequently happens that the Native Police are obliged to penetrate dense scrubs, for which purpose they strip themselves of everything, merely, taking with them their arms and ammunition—would while troopers be in a position to follow the blacks with the same facility through these scrubs ? I do not think they could get go rapidly through the scrubs.
8Sk Could they get through at all ? Yes, with black troopers with them, as I propose.
84: By Mr. Jones: What is the state of feeling among the blacks, are you aware, as compared with what it was a few years ago—are they less afraid of the whites than they were prior to the disorganization of the Native Police Force taking place? Judging from the frequency of outrages and murders on the Dawson, I should be inclined to believe they are less afraid of the whites than they were, and less under awe of punishment than they used to be.
85. Do you think that feeling is an increasing one at the present time ? I have no grounds upon which to offer an opinion on that point.
86. I presume the blacks are still very numerous in the Northern Districts ? Yes.
87. Supposing this feeling of boldness were to grow on them, and lead to its natural consequences, do you not think it would require considerable expenditure of life and money to restore the state of things that now exists in those districts ? Yes; I have no doubt of it.
88. Then you think it better to take effective measures at once, to convince the blacks that any country the white people once take up they will keep ? Yes; no doubt of it. The wisest and most humane system is at once to cause prompt punishment to follow all outrages.
89. Do you think it possible that result can be arrived at, with the Native Police Force as at present organized ? I think not.
90. Then you believe it is absolutely necessary to reorganize this force without delay ? Yes.
91. By Mr. Donaldson: Public attention has been lately drawn to some very remarkable circumstances, namely, that the blacks in the Northern Districts, especially those about the Dawson, not only travel by night, and fight by night, but that the men separate from the women and that tribes supposed to be hostile combine their fighting men for the purposes of aggression—have you in any way noticed these peculiarities ? The combination of the tribes is new to me, and if it be true, it is a very dangerous feature in their character.
92. You do not know that it is so ? I do not.
93. With regard to leaving their women ? That I have seen—at least I know they do it when going to their own corroberies.
94. Do you know anything about their attacking at night? That they do.
95. That is a new feature, and a very dangerous one? It is. Formerly it was understood that superstition prevented them from attacking at night; and they must either have outgrown that superstition, or these must be tribes that are not subject to it.
96. By the Chairman : Can you tell the Committee the amount of pay received by the Native Troopers? I think it is eighteen-pence a day, to cover their feeding and clothing.
97. Should you recommend a' difference of pay between the white and native troopers, on the new system you propose ? Decidedly. I assume that the native trooper should get his eighteen-pence a day, as at present, and that the white trooper should get three shillings and sixpence a day, and rations.
98. Do you anticipate that any feeling of jealousy would exist on account of the difference of wages? I think not at all.
99. Would you recommend, as an immediate remedy, to prevent any more murders on the Dawson River, that a body of white troopers should be sent up, if possible, from Sydney ? Doubtless that would be the best mode of providing for the present emergency that could be adopted, if they were men fitted for the bush.
10U. By Mr. Richardson : Would it not be desirable that they should be men accustomed to the bush ? Decidedly it would be an advantage ; but under the plan I was sketching an idea of, they would all undergo a training at head-quarters before being put to active service in the different districts.
101. Supposing a number of Captain M'Lerie's men were sent, do you think they would be efficient at first? They would soon get into working order, if well commanded.
102. By Mr. Buckley : From your own knowledge of the disposition of the aborigines, should you imagine that these murders on the Dawson have Been committed in consequence of too much freedom having been permitted with the blacks ? I have never seen the blacks do mischief without some previous injury being inflicted on them by the whites.
103 Are you aware whether there was any thing of the kind in these cases ? No.
104. But, from what you know of the blacks, you do not think they are likely to do it wantonly ? As far as I have any knowledge of them, I should think not.
105. By Mr. Taylor: Do yon think the Commandant should habitually reside at the depot ? After he has once formed his corps he would be at liberty to move about, and should do so occasionally; but at the commencement I think his presence would be absolutely necessary at the head-quarters, as he himself would be the very soul of the system to be established.
106. By Mr. Buckley: I think you slated that Maryborough would be a good station for a detachment of this force—do you not think Gayndah would be better ? No; the blacks are more troublesome, and very numerous, at Maryborough. At Gayndah they have never been troublesome.
APPENDIX A.
Remarks on the formation of a Corps of Mounted Police for service on the Frontier
Districts of New South Wales.
1. There can be no doubt of the vast importance to the Northern Districts of this Colony, and to its pastoral interests generally, for the disposal of whose surplus stock these districts now form the chief outlet, of devising and carrying into execution, with as little delay as possible, some more efficient system for the protection of life and property against aboriginal outrage than any which is now in operation.
2. I have therefore much pleasure in laying .before the Committee on Aboriginal Outrages on the Dawson River, in accordance with the promise I made when under examination, a carefully-prepared memorandum of what appears to me the best mode of providing a force adequate to the task of affording police protection to the frontier and disturbed districts.
3. I believe the fundamental error in the constitution of the Native Police Force as it now exists, and the cause of its consequent inefficiency, to be the want of primary organization—that is to say, the institution of the corps without any-organized and arranged system for its government and discipline, as well as the absence of any method in the drill and training of the officers and men who compose it.
4. The mere clothing and arming a certain number of undisciplined men, be they either whites or blacks, is not a sufficient preliminary precaution before you call upon them to perform duties which, alike important and arduous in their nature, require also skill and intelligence in their execution. It appears to me that all who, either as leaders or followers, are liable to be placed in such a position ought undoubtedly to be thoroughly grounded in a knowledge of the work they have to perform; and that such has not been the case with the Native Police, is in my eyes quite a sufficient reason to account for the failure of that experiment, notwithstanding the undoubted zeal and desire to succeed of many of the gentlemen appointed as officers.
5. The great objects to be held in view in the organization of a body of armed men intended to act in concert for the accomplishment of any particular purposes are, in the first instance, to render each individual member of the force as expert in the use of the weapons entrusted to him as he is capable of becoming, and then, by establishing a system of united action, to give to the whole body a cohesion which shall make its operations the result of regulated efforts and not of occasional and isolated impulses—in fact, to establish individual efficiency and combined discipline. ,
6. But to accomplish these ends it is absolutely necessary men should be brought under some more stringent laws than those which enforce the fulfilment of civil contracts; and as a preliminary measure to the organization of any armed force, laws should be passed authorizing enlistment, constituting tribunals for the trial of offences, and enacting summary punishments for infractions of discipline, and crimes which arc more dangerous to the community when liable to be committed by men with arms in their hands and assembled together in large numbers, than when springing from the actions of isolated individuals amongst the masses of society.
7. For the particular purposes under the consideration of the Committee also, there ought to be a law empowering the Executive Government to proclaim any particular district in which frequent outrages occur as a " disturbed district," and to institute therein some more summary process for the trial and punishment of crimes of violence than a resort to the ordinary tribunals of the country will allow.
8. With these protections from the Legislature—and I confess I think them very necessary ones—I apprehend there would be little difficulty in organizing an efficient force for the purposes contemplated by the Committee—the said force to consist of an admixture of Europeans and Aboriginals, in such proportions as may be determined on.
9. In accordance with this view of the nature of the Force to be instituted, I have drawn out and append a detailed and numerical return of its strength and organization, and I add estimates of the probable amount of expenditure.
10. I have already stated that I believe the great cause of the inefficiency of the Native Police, as now constituted, to be its want of organization and training; and I would here impress upon the consideration of the Committee the absolute necessity of giving to any body of men raised either to supplement or supersede that Force, time and opportunity to be brought together, trained, and organized, before being called on to enter on their duties ; and I should say, considering the small numbers to be drilled and disciplined, six months from the time the recruits are brought together might be the period allowed for this purpose.
11. A primary consideration, also, with reference to the future efficiency of this Force, will be the choice of the localities in which recruiting for aboriginal troopers is to take place and I would recommend recourse should be had to districts as far removed as possible from those in which the men are to be called upon to serve. I believe the Namoi, Gwydir, and older settled western country generally, would afford the best description of recruits.
12. With regard to the European troopers, they must of course be, in the first instance,obtained in Sydney; and as soon as a sufficient number are engaged, I would recommend their being despatched by sea to the spot which may be determined on as the central depot
or the corps; and I would suggest for this purpose the neighbourhood of Port Curtis, on the banks of the Calliope River, as strategically the best point to select, and as affording many facilities for the transport of supplies; it being quite possible to choose a spot having, with every other advantage of soil and situation, water carriage to the very depot itself.
13. The place having been decided on, no time ought to be lost in commencing the erection of the necessary buildings, and fencing in about 2,000 acres of land.
14. This being the central depot of the corps, all horses purchased will have to be brought there in the first instance, to be broken in and trained ; all horses sick or disabled will be left there for treatment or recovery ; and detached sections will occasionally be brought up to recruit the condition of horses overworked and requiring rest. For these purposes, and to prevent the straying of horses to be an impediment to operations when a party happens to be suddenly called on for duty, I think the provision of a few good paddocks absolutely essential, and. I propose 2000 acres as affording pasturage for about 200 horses. The buildings which would be required would, I presume, be nearly as under:—
One Commandant's quarters.- Six Officers' quarters, with mess-room and kitchen. - Barrack accommodation for about 60 men, with hospital. -Stabling for, say 30 horses.; and - A guard-house and cells.
But as these needs only be constructed of cheap materials (slabs and shingles) I have no doubt the entire expense of buildings and fencing would not exceed £6,000.
15. Whilst these buildings are in course of construction, the organization and training of such men as bad been engaged could be going on—they being under temporary huts in the mean while; and as successive drafts of aboriginal recruits could be obtained, I would propose they likewise should be forwarded via Sydney to their destination by sea.
16. The Committee will perceive I have included in my estimate an expenditure on account of a band for this force; and I will explain why I consider this necessary.
17. It must be recollected that the duty on which these men are to be engaged is of the most monotonous description, entailing much fatigue, discomfort, and privation ; that a great deal of that duty, and a very important portion of it, viz., the patrols, has to be performed by small sections of the corps, released from all observation of their superiors; and that it is of the highest importance, to ensure the diligent performance of its duties, to create in this body of men an esprit de corps. In fact to lead each individual member of it to feel and act as belonging to a body whose general character be knows to be affected by his conduct.
18. Now, to create this feeling, and train it to its best uses in incitement to a zealous discharge of duty in support of the character of the corps with which the individual is connected, it is necessary to give him some pride in the connection itself—some idea he belongs to a. body whose services are important to the public; and with a corps such as that I am now contemplating the formation of, I know of no measure I could suggest as more calculated to produce the desired effect than that of attaching a band to its head-quarters.
19J The depressing influence of a monotonous routine of duties carried on from year's end to year's end, in the most desolate and thinly peopled portions of the country, ought likewise to be taken into consideration, as the most energetic individual organization is liable to become broken down and stale under such a pressure. I believe the stimulus given to the spirits of the men by marching out a section to its bush duties, or marching one in for occasional rest or relaxation, with a band of music at its head, would do more good in the maintenance of discipline and zeal than would a whole volume of written commendation, or an hour's verbal praise.
20. I think also a band would have a great attraction for the blacks, and render recruiting much more successful. But although I look upon the expense as not to be weighed in the balance with the good which may be anticipated from this measure as a means to an end, this item can be struck out of the estimate, without directly affecting the other portions of it, if the Committee see fit so to do.
21. I must remark, likewise, that I have provided, on "the establishment of the corps," for fifteen supernumeraries (dismounted)—whom I mean as " men in training to supply vacancies," " Officers servants," and generally to perform any services which might otherwise withdraw effectives from field duties. '
22. The total annual expense, therefore, of this Force, according to my estimate, would be about £16,446 7s 6d., irrespective of the pay of the Commandant, which I have not included, as its amount would have to be decided on by Government, under many considerations I am unable to take into account; but whatever this item may be fixed at, it is evident that even with an improved constitution of the Force, by the reversal of the proportion I have taken of Aboriginals to Europeans, and employing eighty of the latter to forty of the former, the annual expenditure may yet be kept a good deal within £20,000, and the Colony be provided with a body of men in every way adequate to the performance of their duties, and who would form a nucleus for extension in the event of any sudden emergency requiring us to arm hastily for defence against hostile attack from without.
23. I have added, also, an estimate of the preliminary expenses which will unavoidably have to be incurred ere the Force can be brought into working order; and it only remains for me to point out that, in the event of any such plan as that I have suggested being adopted, it would be necessary to make provision for the gradual absorption of the officers and men of the present Native Police into the new corps;
M. C. O'CONNELL,
June 24th, 1858.
APPENDIX TO THE FOREGOING EVIDENCE
APPENDIX B.
Proposed Strength and. Establishment of a Corps of Mounted Police for service on the Frontier Districts of New South Wales.
Regimental Staff;—
1 Commandant.................. ...
1 Adjutant and Riding Master, per annum...... ... 365 0 0
1 Paymaster, „ ......... 365 0 0
1 Surgeon, „ ...... ... 365 0 0
1 Sergeant-Major, „ ... ... ... 150 0 0
1 Saddle Sergeant-, „ ......... 120 0 0
2 Farriers, at 3s- 6d., per diem, each............ 127 15 0
4 Rough-riders, do. do. ............ 255 10 0
Establishment of 2 Troops or Divisions of 60 effectives each, irrespective of Non-commissioned Officers and Supernumeries ;—
2 Officers commanding divisions, £450 each......... 900 0 0
4 Subalterns, at £300 each ............... 1,200 0 0
2 Troop Sergeant-Majors, at £120 each ......... 240 0 0
2 Pay Sergeants, „ „ ......... 240 0 0
40 European Troopers, at 3s. 6d. per diem, each ... ... 2,555 0 0
15 European Supernumeraries, do. do. ... ... 1,058 2 6
80 Aboriginal Troopers, at Is. 6d. do. do. ...... 2,190 0 0
Extra pay of Is. per diem to 20 Sergeants......... 365 0 0
Total of Pay... ... £10,496 7 6
Band:— ' I
1 Bandmaster, and 12 Bandsmen ............ 1,090 10 0
Contingent Expenses:—
80 Rations—allowance in lien of, at Is each, per diem...... 1,460 0 0
Annual Clothing, say... ... ... 1,400 0 0
Remounts and Contingencies......... ... ... 1,000 0 0
Forage ..................... 1,000 0 0
16,446 7 6
Extra expense of 40 Europeans in lieu of 40 black troopers... 1,490 0 0
£17,936 7 6
APPENDIX C.
amount of preliminary expenses in raising Frontier Mounted Police.
Purchase of Horses ............ 5,000 0 0;
Recruiting Expenses...... . ... ... 2,000 0 0
Buildings and Fences............ 5.000 0 0
Arms and Accoutrements ......... 2,000 0 0
Forage, first year, extra ......... 2,000 0 0
Six months Pay and Allowances, say...... 8,000 0 0
£24,000 0 0
Memo.—Say this expenditure amounts to £30,000. I think it might be very' properly covered by a loan, to be rained for this purpose ; and which loan might be gradually paid off by a light assessment on the property to be protected.
Probable distribution of Frontier Mounted Police, for 1868.
1. Head Quarters............... 68
2. Taroom........................ 25
S. Condamine................. ... 10
4. Rannes........................ 10
5. Nanango................. 13
6. Maryborough............... . 12
7. Brisbane .....,.................. 22
8. Fitz Roy ..................... 10
Total 170
Under ordinary circumstances, each detachment would be four months at Head Quarters, and eight months at out-stations, during the year.
FRIDAY, 18 JUME, 1858.
present :—
MR. HODGSON, MR. JONES, MR. TAYLOR, MR. FORSTER.
MR. RICHARDSON, MR. CRIBB, MR. BUCKLEY,
ARTHUR HODGSON, Esq., is the Chair.
William Forster, Esq., M. P., a Member of the Committee, examined in his place:—
1. By The Chairman : I believe you were resident for some time in the Northern Districts ? I was a resident in the Northern Districts for thirteen or fourteen years—about eight years on the Clarence, and five or six at Wide Bay.
2. During that time, I presume, you bad many opportunities of knowing the manners and . customs of the aborigines? Yes; not only from my residence there, but through my intercourse with tbe natives in other parts of the Colony, I have a tolerable knowledge of their manners and customs. ■
3. You have heard of the murders that have recently been committed in the Northern Districts? Yes; I may say they are notorious. I have learnt them from the newspapers, and also from conversation with gentlemen from that quarter.
4. To what cause do you attribute those murders ? I should say murders of that kind must always be expected on the frontier of a Colony like this, more or less. The great number of murders committed recently may be owing to peculiar causes; but that murders must occur in taking up new country, by collisions between the whites arid the aborigines, is a necessity almost of that sort of colonization.
5. Do you not attribute these numerous murders to the inefficient state of tee Native Police? I should not be inclined to come to that conclusion without being on the spot, to feel certain of their being caused by the inefficiency of the Native Police; because I am satisfied that, no matter how you organise any force on the border, enterprising men, induced by the large profit, or appearance of profit, held out in undertakings of the kind, will always go beyond any protection the Government can give them; and, in that case, murders will be committed by the natives, and upon the natives, in spite of any force you can organize. It appears to me, however, that the number of murders that have recently occurred on the Upper Dawson, are rather more than we should be warranted in expecting under the circumstances; and I should be inclined to draw the conclusion from that, either that there is some want of efficient protection, or that the squatters have been led to rely on the Native Police more than they ought to do. But it is difficult for any one at this distance to come to the conclusion that the inefficiency of the force is the actual cause of the murders, without knowing more of the circumstances. It seems to me, that the circumstance to be taken into consideration, is the relative proportion of these murders to what we may expect. I believe some murders must occur; but there seems to have been a large number of murders lately, and certainly a larger number than generally occur in other places.
6. Were the Native Police in the Northern Districts when you were residing there? Yes.
7. Who was the Commandant then ? Mr. Walker.
8. Was it an efficient force at that time ? I should say it was certainly not an efficient force, in this sense, that it did not seem to me to, do all the good that might have been done with it; but I should be sorry to say it did not do some good, for I believe almost the most inefficient force that you can have will to a certain extent control the outrages of the natives. But I believe that force has never been, properly speaking, efficient; I believe it has never done as much as might reasonably have been expected from the amount of money expended upon it.
9. Could you suggest any improvement in the formation of the force? I consider that one of the most difficult questions we have to deal with is, the mode of rendering a force of that sort efficient. I believe one reason of its inefficiency is, in some degree, (I may say this is a conclusion at which I have arrived on reflection,) attributable to the peculiar character of the first Commandant, and the difficulty of supplying his place with another man of his peculiar characteristics. He was, I believe, a man of some natural ability, but I think his talent in dealing with these blacks has been somewhat overrated ; because it appeared to me that his control over them was owing rather to his having lived on familiar terms with a large number of the men under his command in other districts before they were enlisted in the Native Police.
10. To what part of the Colony do you allude when you say Mr. Walker lived with these men on familiar terms? He was resident in the south-western districts—in the districts, I believe about the Edward River; and there he had the means, for a long time before he was appointed to the office of Commandant, of becoming very familiar with the particular individuals who were appointed to his force. I do not want to deny his talent; but I think his influence over the men composing the Native Police Force arose a good deal from his previous acquaintance with the individuals who were then appointed to his force. They, no question, had acquired a certain respect for his character, and received commands from him which were carried out without any derogation from his authority, notwithstanding the familiar terms on which he lived with them. From what I have gathered of his dealing with these natives, it would appear that Mr. Walker was extraordinarily familiar with them. He was more familiar than we should consider it right to be with servants, for instance—he treated them almost as friends; and thus, when he was removed from the force, there arose a peculiar difficulty in supplying his place. He was dismissed, no doubt, quite rightly by the Government; for, notwithstanding his abilities, his conduct was such that no Government could have retained him in office with any propriety. My belief indeed is, that they grossly neglected their duty in not having dismissed him three years before. For the reasons I have stated, I infer that the terms on which be lived with the natives placed a peculiar difficulty to the officers who came into the command afterwards. They found themselves unable to enforce their authority over men with whom they were unacquainted individually. They had, been accustomed to notice the familiar terms on which Mr. Walker lived with the men, and they, in most cases, fell in to the error of carrying on the same familiar intereourse; but, owing to their being deficient in those peculiar qualities which Mr. Walker possessed, it resulted in making them objects of contempt to their men. I believe that was the ease with a great number of the young officers who bad charge of the men afterwards. The consequence was, that the force became disorganized, and the men came to obey or not to obey orders according to their own will and pleasure. Every man must see that under such a state of things nothing could result but complete disorganization ; and the evils thus produced were not remedied by the measures taken by the Police authorities. They attempted then to organize a force out of the natives who were close at hand. They could not go back to the Edward River—probably they had not time; and if they had they would only have enlisted. a number of new men not acquainted with the officers, and who would probably not have obeyed them much better. But they fell into the worse error of employing a number of men in the districts close at hand, and that completed the disorganization, and led to consequences that were very injurious; because these men carried on an intercourse with the tribes from which they were taken, and used their police authority to exercise a kind of tyranny over the tribes, without, at the same time, rendering such assistance to the squatters. Another circumstance that tended to the disorganization of the Force was, that there was a sort of trade in the women of the different tribes by these Native Police. Wherever they .came into a new district a number of young women of the tribes were brought forward and placed at their disposal—at least they lived in their camps. Wherever they went they were always surrounded by a number of these women, who always act as emissaries between the wild tribes and those with whom they want to deal. The consequence of all these things was, that the Native Police enforced their authority only at their own option. The officers had hardly any power over them, and whatever goood they did was greatly curtailed. I will not say that even under these circumstances they did not effect some good; but still the inefficiency of the force was greatly increased, and its disorganization completed; for it has, up to the present time, been in a thorough state of disorganization.
11. Could you state to the Committee any views you may entertain as to the best means of ameliorating the present condition of the force ? Having stated what appear to me to have been the peculiar causes of its disorganization, I may say that the subject is an exceedingly difficult one, and that any suggestions I make I offer with great diffidence. I have thought that, in order to enable the officers to obtain any authority over these blacks, they must always have a certain number of white men acting with them ; and it appears to me that they might be associated in the proportion of, say, half white troopers, or two white troopers to three natives. I state this proportion with the greatest diffidence, because it is a mere matter of detail; but, having stated that a great part of the disorganization of the present force arises from the absence of authority on the part of the officers over their men, it appears to me that there must be some white men in the force in order to give them confidence. I think that young men placed in the circumstances that the officers of the Native Police now are, would be very likely to feel themselves in a great degree at the mercy of their men; and placing a certain number of white men among the blacks—perhaps in some position of authority over them— would go far to the root of that portion of the evil that we are at present considering. The proportion is a difficult point, however. I should be inclined to make it such as would give the officers full confidence in dealing with their men, but not so great as entirely to get rid of these blacks as an essential part of the force. I have heard it suggested that they should only be retained as trackers; but I think they should be retained as troopers, not altogether on account of the good they do, but because I think the idea of a Native Police Force is likely to be beneficial to the blacks themselves. It has done good, and, if the force could have been kept under control, would have done more good. Its effect upon the men enlisted, I think, has been beneficial. They seem to be a better race than the wild men they were taken from. The vanity of each individual is affected by having an uniform, and being made a soldier of, and an esprit tie corps is formed among them. Besidcs all this, I think they are able to act against the blacks in the scrubs better than white men would. The pursuit in a scrub is a very difficult matter. No white man with his clothes on, or even without them, could get through the scrubs with anything like a chance of overtaking the blacks; but the Native Police, throw their clothes off, and very often come up with them. The pursuit of certain of the wild tribes—when pursuit is necessary—cannot well be effected without a certain proportion of. these black troopers, because in the country to tee northward these scrubs are frequent, and therefore I should be sorry to see them done away with altogether.
12. By Mr. Richardson : You seem to think a great deal of the disorganization of the Native Police has arisen from the connection of the black troopers with, the women of the tribes? Yes; I believe that bas been carried on to a great extent.
13. Do you think the same would be the case with white men ? I have not the slightest doubt intercourse of the same kind would occur, but not to the same extent; at all events, not to the same dangerous extent. I cannot believe white men would be influenced in the discharge of their duty in the same way as the blacks are. In most cases these men arc dealing with their own tribes, or allies of their own tribes, for there are alliances between these tribes extending over large tracts of country.
14. By Mr: Jones : Where the troopers were white men, the women could not act as emissaries? No.
15. By Mr. Richardson : Do you think a lieutenant in command of a division would have much power over the white men under him ? He would not feel the fear that an inexperienced young man must feel when placed among a number of armed savages.
16. By the Chairman .- Would yon have any special law put id force for the control of the kind of force you propose? It has been suggested by a. very intelligent gentleman, Mr. William Archer—whose Evidence would be of great use to the Committee—and I think the suggestion is a very excellent one:—that if we employ black troopers, there should be a law passed to subject them to some kind of military authority, in the same way as the Sepoys in India, and the Kaffirs at the Cape. As I have said, I believe this experiment of a Native Police is useful to the natives themselves; and I think the advantages derived from it may be greatly increased by making it a legal body. At present it is my opinion that giving arms to the blacks is a direct violation of the law as it stands.
17. In the event of the proposal to associate some white troopers with the blacks being carried out, in the proportion of two whites to three blacks, do yon think it would be advisable to discharge the black troopers at present employed ? Of course their first enlistment ought to be voluntary and to carry oat that principle it would not be right to retain their services, unless they were willing to remain under the new system. If they were willing to remain, I would let them do so. Bat I would in no case employ native troopers in the districts from which they came. It is not enough to go over a range or river and take them from a different tribe, because, from my knowledge of the blacks in the Northern Districts, I believe I may say that alliances between the tribes extend in some cases along extensive tracts of the country, whereas a single range will sometimes disconnect them altogether. I believe a dialect that is common to a great number of tribes extends all the way along the coast from Clarence River to Wide Bay; but when yon go inland you meet with a totally different dialect Wherever these common words occur, common intercourse and alliances take place. I know this to be a fact, that young men from the tribes will go from one tribe to another, until they reach tribes whose Language they scarcely know ; and they get wives from these tribes, and go back afterwards. I think it ought to be a role never to employ any natives who may be enlisted in the force within reach of their own tribes, or those with whom they may be in alliance.
18. Where would you propose getting them from ? I have no doubt plenty of blacks contd be got from the Murrunibidgee and the adjacent districts. Nor do 1 see any great danger in getting them from the Clarence; for, although certain Clarence River words are known to the blacks at Wide Bay, I do not thence infer any great connection between the tribes. These words are probably carried from tribe to tribe by young men wandering, as I have just stated. Still, a certain degree of connection and alliance is thus kept up.
19. By Mr. Jones: Have you any knowledge of the conduct of the black troopers in engagements with the wild tribes? I have no personal knowledge, but my impression is, that it is impossible to restrain them when once an affray takes place, and particularly when a single young officer is placed at the head of a large number of these troopers. Any one may see at once that it is quite impossible for him to have his orders executed when a melee takes place. No doubt in many oases the discretion of the officer regulates the period of attack ; but after the affray commences, you cannot blame him if he cannot restrain his men. I think the circumstance of having a number of white troopers, even if they were not able in certain cases to follow the wild tribes, would still have the effect of controlling the native troopers.
20. I gather from what you say, that in consequence of the employment of these black troopers, when an affray takes place there is greater sacrifice of human life than there would be if white men, were employed, from the impossibility of restraining the black troopers? I think so. I think the presence pf white troopers would enable -the officer in command to do just what he wanted to do, and no more. We know that it is hardly possible to restrain even civilized soldiers when they are excited. In the siege of a town, for instance, no commanding officer can prevent his men from carrying on slaughter after the necessity for it has ceased.
21. The white troopers would be more able to answer signals? Yes; they would be more under control, for two reasons ;—because, in the first place they understand that there is a possibility of their being called to account afterwards; and also because, being human beings of a superior order, they are less impulsive than the blacks, and more able to keep their passions under control.
22. Do yon believe it is at all possible to insure, as a rule, any proper degree of discipline and control amongst a force composed entirely of natives ? I think it is exceedingly difficult. I believe it was done by Mr. Walker, in the way I have stated,—that he had an individual knowledge of these men which gave him a control over them that it would be almost impossible for another officer to acquire.
23. Taking the average class of officers, do you believe they would be able to obtain an effective control over their troopers, and get them into a proper state of discipline, if there were none but blacks in the force ? I believe men generally would not do it.
24. It would only be in special cases, where men like Mr. Walker happened to be in command, that such a body could be retained in a state of discipline ? If Mr. Walker himself had engaged a number of new troopers, unless he had retained a good many of the old ones, I doubt whether he could have done what he did with them ; because he would not have had the same individual familiarity with them that he had with those who first joined him.
25. Do you believe that a smaller white force would be as effective in repressing and preventing outrage as a larger force of black troopers ? I think that would depend on the management
26. Supposing them to be equally well managed ? A white force do you mean, without any blacks?