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Return to Chapter 4, 1857 Parliamentary Votes and Proceedings
1857.
NEW SOUTH WALES.
Legislative Assembly
NATIVE POLICE FORCE.
REPORT
FROM
THE SELECT COMMITTEE
ON THE
NATIVE POLICE FORCE;
TOGETHER WITH
THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE,
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
ORDERED BY THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY TO BE PRINTED, 28 January, 1857.
PRINTED BY WILLIAM HANSON, GOVERNMENT PRINTER,
PHILLIP-STREET.
1857.
Work in progress,
links last updated 16/11/2005
Legislative Assembly Votes and Proceedings - Native Police and Crown Lands
August 19, 1856
Notice of Motion
Mr. BUCKLEY to move, That all Correspondence from the Inspector-General of Police, Sydney, to the Commandant of Native Police in the Northern Districts, also all the Correspondence from Commandant of said Native Police to the said Inspector General for the last two years, respecting the management of the Native Police, be laid upon the Table of this House.
October 2, 1856
Government Business- Notice of Motion
Mr. MURRAY to move for leave to bring in a Bill to Regulate the Waste Lands of the Crown.
EXTRACTS FROM THE VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.
Saturday, 8 November, 1856.
Native Police Force:—Mr. Sandeman moved pursuant to amended notice,—
(1.) That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the present state of the
Native Police Force employed in the Colony, with a view to the improvement of its
organization and management.
(2.) That such Committee consist of Mr. Hay, Mr. Holt, Mr. Jones, Mr. Forster, Mr.
Buckley, Mr. Hely, Mr. Francis T. Rusden,- Mr. Lang, Mr. Wm. Macleay, and the:
Mover. . .
Question (1.)—That a Select Committee be appointed to. inquire into the present
state of the Native Police Force employed in the Colony, with a view to the improvement of its organization and management,—put and passed.
Question (2.)—That such Committee consist of Mr. Hay, Mr. Holt, Mr. Jones, Mr. . Forster, Mr. Buckley, Mr. Hely, Mr. Francis T. Rusden, Mr. Lang, Mr. W. Macleay, and the Mover,—put and passed.
Tuesday, 25 November, 1856.
Management of the Native Police Force in the Northern Districts:—Mr. Sandeman moved, pursuant to notice, That the Papers relating to the Management of the Native Police Force in the Northern Districts, which were laid upon the Table of this House on the 28th of October last, be referred to the Select Committee appointed to inquire into the Native Police Force.
Question put and passed. ' .
Wednesday, 28 January, 1857.
Native Police Force :—Mr. Sandeman, as Chairman, brought up the Report from, and laid upon the Table the Evidence taken before the Select Committee appointed, on the 8th November last, to inquire into the present state of the Native Police Force employed in the Colony, with a view to the improvement of its organization and management.
Ordered to be printed.
1857.
NATIVE POLICE FORCE.
REPORT.
The Select Committee of the Legislative Assembly, appointed on the 8th November last ,to inquire into the present state, of the Native Police Force employed in the Colony, with a view to the improvement of its organization and management;" and for whose consideration were referred certain "papers relating to the management of the Native Police Force in the Northern Districts," have agreed to the following Report:—
Impressed with the serious importance of providing protection for life and property, from the outrages and depredations of the Aborigines, so urgently claimed by the settlers residing in the unsettled parts of the Colony, and more particularly those, inhabiting the outskirts or frontiers of those districts which have been most recently opened to occupation, your Committee, in pursuance of the duty devolving upon them, to inquire into the present state of the Native Police Force, with a view to the improvement of. its organization and management, have availed themselves of the evidence of the undermentioned witnesses:—
1. Francis Nicoll, Esq., J.P., Lieutenant of Native Police, Wandai Gambul. ■
2. William Colburn Mayne, Esq., Auditor General, late Inspector General of
Police.
3. Charles Archer, Esq., J.P., of Gracemein, Fitz Roy River, Port Curtis District.
4. Charles Leith Hay, Esq., J.P., of Rannes, Leichhardt District.
5. Colin John Mackenzie, Esq., J.P., of Wanna Wanna, Darling Downs.
6. Richard Purvis Marshall, Esq,, J.P., late Acting Commandant Native Police.
7. William Thomas Elliott, Esq., Fitz Roy River, Port Curtis District. -
8. Robert Strathdee, Esq., of Coranga, Burnett District
9. Richard Purvis Marshall, Esq., J.P., second examination.
10. Henry Hort Brown Esq., late of Gayndah, Burnett District.
11. Arthur Brown, Esq., of Gin Gin, Wide Bay District.
12. A. Orpen Moriarty, Esq., of the Chief Commissioner of Crown Lands Department. .
13. William Forster, Esq., M.P., formerly a resident in the Wide Bay District.
14. Gideon Scott Lang, Esq., M.P., formerly a resident in the Murrumbidgee District.
15. Richard Bligh, Esq., J.P.., Commissioner of Crown Lands for the Clarence
River District.
16. John M'Lerie, Esq., J.P., Inspector General of Poliee.
Your Committee would, at this stage of their Report, remark, that the difficulty of obtaining the evidence of witnesses before the Committee, practically conversant with the subject of the Native Police at so great a distance from the localities where the force is employed; has, for the present; prevented their prosecuting a more extensive examination of evidence on this very important subject. Their investigation, however, as far as it has gone, has furnished a very considerable amount of evidence of a practical character, from which your Committee will proceed to draw their deductions, which they are desirous should be submitted to your Honorable House before the Estimates of Expenditure for 1857 are brought under consideration; and in the absence of further viva voce evidence, they are desirous of drawing the attention of your Honorable House the means afforded them of examining the written testimony furnished in the answers to a Circular addressed by their Chairman to his constituents residing in the Northern Districts, and others acquainted with the requirements of those Districts. A copy of the Circular, with the Questions to which, the Answers referred to are given, is hereto appended:__
" Sir,
" Ipswich, Moreton Bay,
14 July, 1856.
" The difficulty of organizing a Public Meeting of the Inhabitants of these scattered Districts has suggested the step of inviting those interested in the important question of the Native Police Force, to express their opinions in writing on the subject, and your favouring me with answers to the annexed questions, and with any information or suggestions you may deem useful for the better organization of the Force, will be esteemed of service.
,Your answer, addressed to me at the Legislative Assembly Chambers, Sydney, will oblige.
" I am, Sir,
Your faithful Servant
" GORDON SANDEMAN."
" Proposed :—-Fifteen men for each section, to be divided into two detachments of six each, allowing three men to be left at Barracks for sickness and accidents. One officer for each detachment; each officer to be independent of the other, and responsible for his own particular charge. The whole of the Native Police Force to be under the superintendence of a Local Inspector-General or Commandant, whose duty it should be, frequently, to inspect the various sections, to be assisted, if necessary, by a Deputy Inspector, or Assistant Commandant.
" Each Trooper to be furnished with two serviceable horses; two pack-horses and gear for each section. Each section to have attached to it a Farrier, or man capable of shoeing horses and keeping the Saddlery, &c., in order, and taking charge of, and issuing Stores at the different Barracks."
" Are you of opinion that it is absolutely essential an Officer should be immediately appointed to the Local Superintendence of the Native Police Force, either as Commandant or Inspector, or both ?
"Do you consider that an augmentation of the Corps is essential not only to the interests as at present existing, but to the future progress and security of the frontier Districts; and to what extent in each District should such augmentation be made ? and will you have the goodness to make any suggestions you consider may be of service to the future management of the Force, either as regards the general supervision or details of management.''
The Circular referred to was addressed to the undermentioned persons, from whom answers have been received:—
Name. ° District.
1. John Balfour, Esq., J.P. ... ......... Moreton.
2. Messrs. Robert and Bryce Barker ... ... ... Burnett.
3. Joshua Peter Bell, Esq., J.P....... ... Darling Downs
4. James Bennett, Esq. ... ... ... ... Do.
5. Henry Boyle, Esq., Commissioner of Crown Lands Maranoa.
6. Henry Hort Brown, Esq. ... ... ... ... Burnett.
7. Thomas R. Boulton, Esq....... ... ... Leichhardt. : ..
8. J. D. Bushnan, Esq. ... . ..; ... Darling Downs.
9. Pollet Carden, Esq.-, J.P. ... ... ...... Leichhardt.
10. A. W. Compigne, Esq. ... ... ...... Moreton.
11. John Ferrett, Esq., J.P. ... / ... ,.. ... Darling Downs.
12. F. A. Forbes, Esq....... Moreton.
13. H. B. Fitz, Esq............. ... Darling Downs.
14. William O'Grady Haly, Esq., J. P. ... ... Burnett.
15. Charles Robert Haly, Esq. .. ......... Leichhardt.
16.-Frederick R. Hutchinson, Esq. ... ... ... - Wide Bay.
17. Matthew Goggs, Esq, ............ Darling Downs.
.18. W. P. Gordon, Esq. ......... ... Do.
19. Lieut.-Col Gray, Police Magistrate ... ... Ipswich.
20. Clark Irving, Esq., M.L.A. ......... Richmond River.
.21. Joseph King, Esq. ... ...... ... ... Leichhardt.
22. W. F Kennedy, Esq. ........ ... Darling Downs.
53. Messrs. J. and J. Landsborough........ Wide Bay.
24. Messrs. B. A. and H. Lawson......... ... Burnett.
J25. Clement Lawless, Esq. ............ Burnett.
26. Colin John Mackenzie Esq., Esq.. .. ... Darling Downs.
27. D. Mactaggart, Esq. ......... ... Wide Bay.
28. Thomas De Lacy Moffiit, Esq., J.P, ..... .Darling Downs.
;29. Francis Nicoll, Esq. JP.......... ... Do.
30. P. J. Pigott, Esq., J.P. Burnett.
31. B. B. Ridley Esq..J.P. ............ Do.
32. Fredk. W. Roch, Esq. ......... ... Darling Downs.
33. Messrs. C.J. and E,M. Boyds J.P....... Leichhardt.
34. Messrs. R. and W. Strathdee ...... ... Burnett.
35., John Scott, Esq. ... :. ...... ... ... Leichhardt.
36. Simon Scott, Esq. .. ;, ... ... ...... Moreton.
37. Alfred Sandeman, Esq. J.P. ......... Darling Downs.
38..James Taylor, Esq.,............. Do.
39. Joseph Thompson, Esq: ........... .Leichhardt.
40.Honorable Robert Tooth, Esq., M.L.C. ... ... Darling Downs
41. Wm. Henry Walsh Esq. JP..... Burnett.
42. J.Ker Wilson, Esq., J.P......... ...... Darling Downs.
43. .William Henry Yaldwyn, Esq. ... ... ... Leichhardt.
The above cited list includes, it will be perceived, the names of ,forty three persons, all of whom, with one or two exceptions, have answered the questions proposed emphatically in the affirmative, while the greater number have enlarged upon the subject submitted to their consideration, by throwing out various suggestions, having for their object improvement n the management of the Native Police Force.
From the various evidence adduced, your Committee are of opinion, that the maintenance of the Native Police in such force, as to meet not only the requirements as at present existing, but the progressive wants of that widely extended class of the community, the frontier occupants, is absolutely requisite for the protection of life and property, and is essential as a most valuable adjunct to the pioneering energies of the extreme outlying districts with the progress of which great producing interests of the Country are so intimately connected, and on the advancement and prosperity of which those interests are so largely dependant.
Before proceeding to .make the recommendations which the Evidence before them enables your Committee to offer, they deem it proper to bring under review, as briefly as the circumstances will permit, a few prominent points in the past history of the Native Police Force, with the object of better elucidating .the grounds on which your Committee feel justified in proposing the recommendations for the better organization and improvement of the Force, which they are prepared to submit to your Honorable House.
It appears from the Evidence before your Committee that, previously to the Native Police being introduced into the Northern Districts of the Colony, the outrages committed by the blacks in the outlying districts were of frequent occurrence, extending to murder as well as the the destruction of stock to a great extent. That, although the Native Police Force, then only recently raised, was not, as could scarcely be expected in a recently organised body, and so composed, in such a perfect state of efficiency, as under proper management there was no reason to doubt it might have attained. That body after its introduction into the troubled districts, effected a great amount of good in checking the lawless state of outrage on the part of the native blacks that had previously existed; and although it does appear complaints existed that some portion of the Wide Bay District did not receive the same amount of protection as others, your Committee are inclined to attribute such neglect in a measure to the same serious fault on the part of the first Commandant, then perhaps partially betraying itself, to which so much reference is made in the Evidence before them, as well as probably to the weakness of the Force, and to the absence of such a distribution over a widely extended space, as a more matured experience would have dictated; and taking the aggregate result of the effects produced by the presence of the Native Police Force, your Committee are of opinion, that a far greater amount of life must have been sacrificed, and a much greater extent of property destroyed, had the Native Police Force not been established in the most recently occupied districts and those immediately adjoining. But while your Committee believe that much good was effected by the presence of the Native Police in the districts referred to, they are of opinion that a far greater amount of benefit might have been effected had the capabilities of the Force been properly developed and directed, which they are of opinion was not the case,—for with the difficulties naturally existing of perfecting the effectiveness of a recently raised body, composed of such novel material, to the management of which, perhaps, the majority of the officers had previously been totally unaccustomed,—there appears to have existed for a very considerable time, within the Force itself, an abuse quite sufficient to have rendered ineffective a body or men far more intelligent than a corps composed of native blacks. It appears that intemperate habits on the part of the Commandant had existed for some years—that frequent complaints of misconduct, arising out of, those habits on the part of the Commandant, had been made' to the Government by respectable residents, including Magistrates of the Districts,—but that no effectual steps were taken to remedy the abuse complained of, until the Officers of the Force themselves, after a long period of hesitation, arising from causes which are detailed in the Evidence before your Committee, were compelled to complain to the Government of the day,—and not till then were any. effectual steps adopted to put a stop to an abuse so glaring, and so obstructive of all discipline and efficiency. The course thus, at last, forced upon the Government, was the institution of a Commission of Inquiry, and the consequence was the dismissal of the Commandant. The next step that appears to have been taken in the administration of the Force, was the abolition of the office of Commandant. In the Evidence before your Committee there is no just reason or grounds shown for the adoption of such a measure, and the great body of the Evidence taken, with the exception of that of Captain Mayne, under whose control the Force was at the time, combines to condemn that measure as subversive of the efficiency of the Force, and strongly to recommend the appointment of an Officer to fulfil the duties of the local head, as Inspector or Commandant.
Your Committee will only briefly allude to another measure adopted in the administration of the Force, viz.,—the reduction of the Force from its former strength of one hundred and thirty-six men to seventy-two men, the present nominal strength of the Force. No reason has been adduced to account for such a step having been taken, while the Evidence before your Committee tends to shew that that reduction (in conjunction, doubtless, with the impaired efficiency of the Force consequent upon the abolition of the Commandantship,) has been productive of very serious results, in an increase in the number of murders committed since the reduction took place; and not only is the loss of life thus occasioned to be deplored, but the important consideration is involved in the measure that the occupation of the frontier country, and development of its resources, the spread of population, and the advancement of the productive interests, have been seriously checked, and are still being retarded by the absence of the requisite protection.
On the whole, your Committee are prepared to state to your Honorable House, as the result of all the investigation they have been able to bring to bear upon the important subject before them, and after the most mature consideration : That throughout the whole mass of Evidence adduced there does not appear the least ground to question, or even to indicate, a doubt of the capabilities and adaptation of the Native Police Force for the duties for which that body was originally raised; but, on the contrary, that, under proper provisions and judicious management and direction, such a Force is admirably adapted to protect life and property, and materially to assist the progress of the settler in the unsettled frontier districts.
That the abuses and want of protection that have been complained of latterly have arisen—
1st. From the weakness of the Force.
2nd. An ineffective or improper distribution of it; and that the inefficiency of the Force has been greatly increased by the absence of a Local Officer, as Inspector or Commandant, to supervise and control the Conduct of the Force generally—a duty the more imperative from the fact of many of the officers being young men with but limited experience, and a few of them, it is feared, with habits not improved by the force of example so long permitted to remain unchecked on the part of the former Commandant. Your Committee, therefore, convinced of the urgent importance of the subject, and confirmed in their views by the Evidence before them, will now proceed to submit to your Honorable House their earnest recommendation.
1st.—That there be appointed an Officer to undertake the local charge of the Native Police in the Northern Districts, as Commandant and Inspector, who shall be responsible to the Government for the efficiency and proper conduct of the Force, and whose duty it should be to inspect, from time to time, the various detachments, or bodies comprising the whole Force in the Northern Districts, and whose duty it should further be to control and regulate the movements and distribution of the Force; and considering the past irregularities which have already been referred to, your Committee recommend, that while the entire control and direction of the Force should be in the hands of the Commandant and Inspector alone, in whose hands, also, should rest the power of appointing Officers to the Force, subject to the approval of the Government—that Officer shall render to the .Executive Officer of Government to whose department the Native Police Force shall be attached, Monthly Reports, to be transmitted through the Bench of Magistrates nearest to the locality where the Commandant and Inspectors shall happen to be at the time when such Monthly Report shall be due; and that such Reports may be accompanied by any Minutes that may seem to the Bench to be desirable to make on said Reports, and that copies of any such Minutes shall be transmitted to the Commandant and Inspector by the Bench; and in event of any complaint being made - against the conduct or proceedings of the. Commandant and Inspector,. such complaint shall be referred to a Bench of Magistrates near to which the cause of complaint in question shall have occurred. |
2nd.—Your Committee recommend—as the duties of the Officer proposed to be appointed as Commandant and Inspector would, necessarily be of an itinerating nature, and prevent him remaining stationary at any given spot, and attending properly to the clerical duties in detail, including accounts of the Force-—that an Officer should be attached to the Department of the Native Police in the capacity of Secretary or Clerk, whose duty it should be to undertake the correspondence and attend to the accounts, and other clerical business of the Force, and whose place of residence should be fixed at some central locality, where, also, should be fixed the head quarters of the Commandant and Inspector.
3rd.—Your Committee recommends as absolutely essential to the due effectiveness of the Native Police Force— ;
That the Force for the service of the Northern Districts consist of not less than 120 Troopers, to be divided into bodies or Detachments of about 10 men each; say effective men 100 and to supply casualties by sickness or otherwise, allowing 2 men for each detachment 20 : in all 120
4th.—Your Committee recommends that while the Native Police should be employed principally as a patrolling Force, there should be main Camps formed for each body or detachment, to be fixed in localities the most central in each outlying district or portion of district where such detachments shall be stationed; and that such main Camps should he formed in number and in the districts named as follows:—
Leichhardt.............................. 4 main Camps.
Port Curtis ...........,................ 1 „
Maranoa and Lower Condamine...... 2 „
Burnett and Wide Bay............... 1 „
Moreton ..............,i................. I „
Clarence and Macleay................. 1 „
in all 10: and that to each main Camp there should be attached an Officer as Camp Sergeant, whose duty it should be to issue and attend to the stores, keep the saddlery in order, and, if practicable, to be able to shoe the horses, and generally to assist the Officer in charge of detachment in drilling and exercising the Troopers.
5th.—Your Committee recommend that the number and respective grades of Officers in the Force should be fixed as follows, viz.:—
3 First lieutenants, .
11 Second Lieutenants.
The existence of the grades as recommended in the Department your Committee are of opinion is most advisable; as, in a prospect of promotion an encouragement is held out to increased, exertion on .the part of the junior Officers of the Force and on the like principle, your Committee recommend that the pay of the different grades of Officers should be fixed and apportioned. Your Committee, while they would merely remark that the Evidence is conclusive as to the propriety of. abolishing the grade of Sergeant, have not recommended that the grade of Sub-Lieutenant should be continued; being of opinion, that the amount of .responsibility devolving upon a Native Police Officer is far too serious and important to be extended to a grade hitherto generally composed of very young men, or filled by a class of persons, not more, efficient than could be expected the low rate of salary attached to the office would induce to enter—what is in reality a very arduous service. Your Committee have. therefore proposed, that the Officers should principally consist of Second Lieutenants, a grade, for which if proper remuneration is appropriated, it is to be hoped would be filled by. persons fitted by character and competency for its responsible duties.
6th.—The distribution of the Force your Committee recommend should be adopted as set forth in the following scale,— leaving any future alteration in its distribution to the discretion and control of the Commandant and Inspector; viz:—
1. Commandant and. Inspector.
1. Secretary or Clerk. . . .
NORTHERN DISTRICTS.
POET CURTIS.
1. Second Lieutenant.
12. Troopers. .- . .
I. Camp Sergeant.
LEICHHARDT.
(Including the whole of the Upper Barwon.)
1. Lieutenant.
5. Second Lieutenants.
48. Troopers.
4. Camp Sergeants.
WIDE BAY AND BURNETT.
I. Lieutenant.
1. Second Lieutenant.
18.. Troopers.
1. Camp Sergeant.
MARANOA AND LOWER CONDAMINE, DARLING DOWNS.
1. Lieutenant.
' 2. Second Lieutenants. .
24. Troopers.
2. Camp Sergeants.
MORETON.
1. Second Lieutenant
8.. Troopers.
1. Camp Sergeant.
CLARENCE AND McLEAY.
1. Second Lieutenant.
10. Troopers.
1. Camp Sergeant.
7th.__With reference to the Native Police Force employed in the Southern Districts, your Committee are of opinion, after having investigated the evidence before them on that branch of the service, that the Native Police are not now required in the District of Murrumbidgee, for the purpose for which the force was originally raised and intended; and as the duties, to which its services are now devoted, belong to the ordinary Constabulary of the district, your Committee recommend that the force now employed there should be withdrawn - to the number of 12 Troopers and the Sergeants attached—and that the services of said Troopers should be transferred to the Force stationed in the Northern Districts; and as according to the evidence before them, the Native Police is still required in the Albert and Lower Darling Districts, for the purposes of protection against the Aborigines, they recommend that the Force to be employed in those districts should consist as follows, viz.:—
SOUTHERN DISTRICTS.
ALBERT.
1. Second Lieutenant.
6. Troopers.
LOWER DARLING.
1. Second Lieutenant.
6. Troopers
In comparing the proposed amended Estimate with the sum placed on the Estimates of Expenditure for 1857, for the service of the Southern Districts, there will be a considerable reduction apparent.
After taking into account the probable reduction contemplated, there will be a large increase in the estimate for the Native Police for the Northern Districts; and in conclusion your Committee beg leave to state, that while they have been desirous in the consideration of the subject, to which they have devoted much serious attention, to advise and adopt the strictest economy consistent with efficiency, they have no hesitation, bearing fully in mind the important interests involved, strongly to recommend to the approval of your Honorable House the alterations and increase they have felt it their duty to propose for the Service— the improvement, of the organization and management of which was referred by your Honorable House for their consideration and report. , '
Legislative Assembly Chamber,
28 January, 1857.
GORDON SANDEMAN,
Chairman.
1856.
NEW SOUTH WALES.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE
TAKEN BEFORE THE
SELECT COMMITTEE
ON THE
Native Police Force
WEDNESDAY, 19 NOVEMBER, 1856.
Mr. BUCKLEY, Mr. FORSTER, Mr. HELY, Mr. LANG, Mr. Wm. MACLEAY,
Mr. SANDEMAN.
GORDON SANDEMAN, Esquire, in the Chair.
Francis Nicoll, ;Esq., J.P., called in and examined:—
1. By the Chairman : You are an officer of the Native Police ? Yes.
2. Where are you stationed ? At Wandai Gumbal, on the Tchanning.
3. You are in the District of Darling Downs ? The building which constitutes my 'headquarters actually stands in the Darling Downs' District, but that is not the District where most of my work lays. It is only because I happen to be on one side of the creek, instead of the other, that I am in the Darling Downs. '
4. How many men have you under: your charge ? Twelve at present, and there are six men on the Dawson, at Palmtree Creek, whom I have to visit occasionally, because it is too far for the officer in charge of the Leichhardt District, Mr. Murray, to inspect them. I have to go over the range and inspect these men, though they are not in my district.
5. Then you have eighteen men altogether under your orders? I have nineteen altogether, for there is one I keep and pay myself because he is too good a man to lose.
6. What district or extent of country do you consider under your charge ? I am supposed by the Government to keep the country quiet as far as Dray ton, which would be utterly impossible were the blacks not quiet in that direction.
7. On the other side, how far does it extend? On the other side it is illimitable.
8. You are supposed to have the Maranoa in your district ? Yes, and the Fitz Roy Downs: When the Force was stronger we were supposed to look after the upper part of the Balonne.
9. With these eighteen men you have charge of the whole of the Upper Dawson ? Yes, but six of these men do not belong to me; I only look after them, because it is too far for Mr. Murray to come to inspect them ; it would take him a fortnight to ride to them if he rode night and day ; I can get to them in about four days.
10. Then, in fact, under your immediate command there only twelve men ? Only twelve men.
11. And with these twelve men you are supposed to protect the country extending all over the Maranoa? Yes, and the Fitz Roy Downs, and up to Drayton.
12. By Mr. Macleay: Have you any idea of the number of the Native Police Force altogether? It has been so reduced that I do not know the number now. I think there are now seventy-two altogether : Mr. Murray has twenty-four in the Leichhardt District; there are twenty-four in the Wide Bay and, Burnett; I have twelve; arid there are twelve on the Clarence.
13. By the Chairman: Within what time has the Force been reduced—within eighteen months? About eighteen months.
14. How many men had you in your section previous to the reduction ? Twenty-four. We always, at Wandai Gumbal, kept a supernumerary in the section in case of sickness in the Force; what will keep twelve men will keep thirteen. One thing the Government makes no allowance for is, that out of seventy-two men there are sure to be some of them sick. Wandai Gumbal ten of them not able to move, and at other times I have had them all well. The men that were brought from the southward with Mr. Walker, the original Commandant, are very subject to fever and ague, which my northern troopers do not suffer from.
15. Did you consider twenty-four men sufficient protection for the country under your charge? Yes; but I considered they were very improperly placed.
I6. If they had been properly placed, would they have been sufficient for the purpose? Yes, .if one of the Sub-lieutenants had been regularly stationed on the Balonne with eight men, and relieved every three months.
17. By Mr Hely : Have you ever known any instance of native troopers being sent out by themselves without even a white Sergeant with them ? Yes; I did it. I was left for some months without a Sergeant; my Sergeant became deranged, and I got rid of him on the 27th January. I was left from that time to the 22nd July without an European, in charge of a large district and whenever I sent out my troopers in this way, I took care that there were no blacks in the vicinity. I told them to go about from place to place and make camps, because when the blacks see the camps they conclude we are out patrolling, and go back again.
18. Have you ever known an instance in which native troopers sent out by themselves have attacked and shot other blacks ? No; but I have heard it ,was once done before I joined the Force.
19. By the Chairman .-.Do you approve of the abolition of the grade of Sergeant and the substitution of that of Sub-lieutenant ? Yes. We never could get Sergeants latterly that we could trust out of our sight; if there was a keg of grog in the district they were sure to get at it, and then they would leave the troopers to shift for themselves; they would not even get the men their rations.
20. You think it is a grade not applicable to the service? No; because the troopers do not pay so much attention to men of that class as they do to their Lieutenants. The Government wrote to us to say that we might make any appointments we chose; but if we got a good bushman, the chances were that he could not read and write, and then he could not manage the ration accounts; and if he could read and write, most likely he was a drunkard; so that we were between two stools; but I do not think the Sub-lieutenants can live on the pay they have at present.
21. The appointment of Commandant was done away with some two years ago ? Yes.
22. Do you consider the Force has been improved or otherwise since that step was taken? I think it has deteriorated very much ; but I should like to qualify that remark, by saying that it was getting very bad under the former Commandant Mr. Walker—on account of his intemperate habits; if he had kept steady it would have been quite a different Force. Mr. Marshall had so short a time that he had not time to get things in order; he was hardly in charge before they abolished the office; he had no chance at all.
23. What do you consider should be the duties of the Commandant or Inspector ? I think a Commandant should interfere very little with the officers, unless any of them should be guilty of a very great breach of duty, because the Commandant cannot know so much as the officer in command of the District, what the native tribes are likely to do. I think the Commandant should see particularly to the forwarding of supplies. As the Force is at present constituted, it does not matter whether flour is £10 or £100 a ton; it must be bought just when it is wanted; but when flour is low why cannot a supply be laid in. When I wrote to Captain Mayne for permission to purchase flour, he wrote back to say, that he considered the purchase of flour in such large quantities as a ton at a time very objectionable. However, I had half a ton, at about £26, and the next time I wanted flour it was at £68 a ton. I think the greatest benefit to be derived from the appointment of an Inspector or Commandant would be, that he would see the supplies forwarded to the proper stations, because at present it may happen that I get another Lieutenant's tea and he gets my tobacco, and so on; and sometimes we do not get our supplies at all. As an illustration of the way : in which matters are managed now, I may mention, that when a Sub-lieutenant was sent to Wandai Gumbal, on the Lower Condamine, or towards the borders of Maranoa, he was sent to Grafton by the Clarence steamer.
24. In the absence of supplies, you have to pay much higher prices to the neighbouring settlers? A great deal. ' I can shew accounts in which I have been charged a shilling a pound for flour.
25. How many men should be in each detachment ? That would depend greatly upon the district. I think six men are too few for any detachment; because, if you have two sick at a time, which is not unlikely, you cannot do anything with four men.
26. What number do you think sufficient for a detachment? I think the smallest detachment should be eight; and then, allowing two for sickness and casualties, there would always be six fit for duty.
27. If you had a detachment of eight men, would you have any man to leave in charge of the stores? I think there should be an European for that purpose. When I was left by myself for five months, as I have before mentioned, whenever I went away I had to leave the men their rations for each day made up separately in paper bags; and if I happened to be detained longer than I expected, when I came back their rations were out, and they had helped themselves from the stores, for of course they could not starve.
28. By Mr. Lang: Then you would have a white man to each detachment, to weigh out the rations and take charge of the stores ?. Yes.
29. Would he have no other duty ? If we could get a handy man, who could shoe horses and stuff a saddle, to fill up his time, it would be a great advantage. At present, I have to send such of my horses as want shoeing all the way to Myall Creek, and when they come back their shoes are nearly worn out again; some horses must be shod, as you are aware.
30. What sort of a man would you get, and what wages would you pay him ? I do not think we could get a man up there at all; it would be easier to get him down here.
31. The blacks round about Wandai Gumbal are quite quiet now, I suppose? In the immediate neighbourhood they are.
32. Are they quiet round the head of the Yulbar ? No; that is about the worst place in the district to get at them.
33. How far is that place from your station ? About twenty-five miles, as the crow flies.
34 How far to the westward are the blacks quiet? I think if the barracks were moved further out, they would be quiet a long way back—say to the Bungle.
35. You think, if you moved on to the Bungle, they would be quiet all behind you? There would be no difficulty behind. There is one place on the Tchanning, viz., Bogandilla, where Mr; Kettle who was killed by the blacks built a station, close under the range, where I do not think they will ever be quiet.
36. Do you not think that if the country is to be put to the expense of putting up another barracks, it would be advisable to move on ahead still further than the Bungle, so that you would then command a larger extend of country behind you as well as in front ? That would be of no use, unless we could arrange with settlers to move out and occupy the country at the same time.
37. Are there not settlers on the Bungle ? I am not aware of any.
38. Does it not strike you that if the head quarters are to be removed and another station built, it should be placed in such a position that it would protect the settlers who might go out into the new district beyond the Bangle, and beyond the Maranoa? You would then leave a great deal of country unprotected down towards the south.
39. In which, I suppose, you. would place detachments ? That would be very well if you gave us men enough.
40. If you only move to the Bungle, people will soon push out ahead of yon again, and when you go to the expense of moving from Wandai Gumbal------? You forget that the station at Wandai Gumbal cost the Government nothing; the squatters put it up themselves.
41. But they are not likely to do the same again, and it is evident this movement would cause additional expense. However, I suppose if you had to supply detachments for the whole frontier of that new district, you must have more men ? Yes; twelve men cannot do it.
42. Do yon think that if you had the whole number of your former command, twenty-four men, with sub-officers, so that you could place detachments at the necessary points, your head-quarters should be further out than the Bungle? Yes, I would go as far as I could, then.
43. How far is this place that you propose removing to from the Balonne ? I only proposed removing to this place with twelve men ; if you give us more men we would move further out at once. I would then send a detachment of eight men to the Balonne, and change them every three months; but, with twelve men, I could not do that. We should have enough to ' to do to save ourselves with only twelve men, if we moved out so far. If I went out, I should never expect to find the barracks in existence, on my return.
44. By the Chairman: Supposing the number of men belonging to your section to be twenty- four, how many horses would you give them ? They should have two each. We have been I only allowed one to each man, but it is absurd.
45. You would require some pack horses? Yes; there should be two pack horses to twelve men. We have nothing but bush feed, and that is not very plentiful at times, so that we must have a good number of horses; besides the horses being loose in the bush are constantly missing.
46. By Mr. Lang: Have you ever had a paddock put up at Wandai Gumbal ? No; I do not think there is a paddock at any Native Police Station, unless Mr. Murray has one at Port Curtis.
47. Could you not get the blacks themselves to put up a sapling yard? If they had somebody to direct them, they might; but I do not know that I could teach them. '
48. By the Chairman : You consider that the local Commandant or Inspector should have the supervision of the whole Force ? Yes. We did not know at times to whom we ought to write, whether to Capt. O'Connell, Capt. Mayne, or Mr. Marshall.
49. By Mr. Buckley : Where do you think would be the best locality for the Commandant to be stationed? I think he ought to have a place at Wide Bay, and a place at Brisbane— I mean some place to put his stores in; he might make arrangements with some storekeeper to give him room for them. The Inspector or Commandant ought to have some place wherehe could store up flour when it was cheap.
50. Which would be the most central spot for a depot? He could not get one, because my stores, for instance, have to be shipped to Brisbane; Mr. Murray's to Port Curtis; and Mr Morrisett's to Wide Bay.
51. Supposing yon wanted to communicate officially, which would be the most convenient position for the Commandant ? Brisbane, because the posts are so regular there.
52. By Mr. Lang: I suppose you are acquainted with the country between the Dawson and the coast, and between the Burnett arid Wide Bay? Very slightly. I was on the Burnett for a short time after I went down, bat all the rest of the time I have been on the Lower Condamine.
53. What number of men would be required to take charge of the country between the Dawson and the Burnett ? Twenty-four is the present number, as far as I have understood.
54. Do yon think they are sufficient for the purpose ? I am not sure, but I have always understood the officers were satisfied with that number.
55. They are placed in detachments, are they not ? There are six or eight men on the Burnett, but I do not know where Mr. Morrisett has the others.
56. Do you know where the head quarters are ? He is putting up a hut or two, I believe, in some central place; but, until lately, he has had no barracks at all.
57. Yon mentioned just now, as one of the duties or the Commandant, that he would be able to see that stores were regularly supplied to the different sections of the Force—do you not think arrangements to meet that object could be made with some storekeeper in each district ? We used to have some arrangement of that sort, but at times we have been starving.
58. Settlers have no difficulty in procuring supplies ? I beg your pardon, I have seen all the shepherds and hutkeepers of the district where I was on a ration of half a pound of rice a day because there was no flour to be had in the district.
59. By The Chairman: Do you consider, from your knowledge of the country, that a Native Police Force is required in the Clarence .District ? I do not know the Clarence, but the blacks never seem to commit any murders there. I am always satisfied if I can protect human life. I do not think you can expect to prevent the blacks taking an odd sheep, or a bullock or two, now and then.
60. By Mr. Lang: Are the settlers themselves satisfied with that way of doing business ? I have always heard them say so—I do not mean rushing the cattle and disturbing the main camps, or taking off a flock of sheep.
Although not given in actual evidence, I should much desire that the following remarks be printed with the questions and answers before given.
The number of officers at present in command of the different detachments of Native-Police, is so small, that a newly appointed Sub-lieutenant has to proceed at once to his own individual command. As a necessary consequence, he is at the mercy of his troopers, who, taking advantage of his ignorance, do whatever they choose. The appointment of another officer would enable the Sub-lieutenant last appointed to learn his duties under an experienced Lieutenant, before he undertakes a separate command.
19 November 1856
W C Mayne William Colburne Mayne, Esq., Auditor General, late Inspector General of Police;.
Esq. called in and examined:—
1. By the Chairman: As Inspector General of Police you had the Native Police Force under your charge for some time ? Yes, since the middle of 1855.
2. Did. your duty in that respect commence before or after the abolition of the office of Commandant ? My taking charge of it was with the understanding that the office was to be abolished.
3. Do you consider that the abolition of that office has tended to increase the usefulness of the Force, or otherwise ? I think it was an office that it was perfectly justifiable to dispense with as not being necessary.
4. And, from your experience in the management of the Force up to the time when you gave up the control of it, were you still of that opinion ? Quite of that opinion
5. Will you be good enough to state some of your reasons for forming that opinion? I think the means of communication with the central authority in Sydney are very nearly as great as for communicating with any Commandant. In fact, it being known that the central authority can always be communicated with, and is always there, presents a facility which does not exist in the other case, because the Incus in quo of the Commandant could never be. known to any of the officers of the Force. My view is that there is nothing to prevent the Corps being directed in the same way as the Mounted Police Corps was directed, each officer being made strictly responsible for his own command in his own district, but being compelled, to act in co-operation and in unity with the officers in contiguous districts. ] .
6.An alteration has been made recently, I believe, by which the grade of Sergeant was done away with, and that of Sub-lieutenant substituted ? Yes. It was represented by the Officers
that making it a rank which gentlemen would hold would afford facilities for getting a class than could be obtained for the rank of non-commissioned officers. I saw force in the reason; it was one that I quite concurred in, and on that ground I recommended the alteration. In fact,. I may say it was impossible to get men as Sergeants in the least approaching to efficiency.7. Do you believe that the appointment of Sub-lieutenants has worked well in the management of the Force ? I have no means of judging, because I have had no reports one way or the other.
8. What is your opinion of the number of men required for the District of Leichhardt including; Port Curtis ? I originally proposed the strength of the Force there as it is at present; a Lieutenant, a second Lieutenant, two Sub-lieutenants, and twenty-four troopers. I subsequently saw reason to advise that there should be an increase of a few troopers, to meet contingencies of accident and sickness; but, there being no provision to enable that to be done, it was not done. I would always wish to have the division of the effective strength of twenty-four troopers.
9. Are you aware of the extent of country that body would be expected to protect 5] Not the whole extent. But the principle I have always endeavoured to carry out has be on that the duties of the Native Police ought to be confined to the protection of the white population on the extreme limits of the frontier districts. That was the view taken by the Legislature, (see Parliamentary Votes and Proceedings, ....find date) and it was one which, I confess, I concurred in.
10. By Mr. Lang: If twenty-four troopers are necessary for the protection of that district,, how many do you suppose would be sufficient for the protection of the Maranoa and the country beyond it—it would require twenty-four also, I suppose? No, twelve. |
11. There are twelve there now ? Yes. -
12. Do you think twelve men are sufficient to protect the Balonne—where the blacks are and always have been troublesome—and also to protect the country to the north bf the Balonne ? I have had nothing before me to lead me to suppose the contrary.
13. You are not aware that there is a Petition now before the Assembly on the subject of the outrages in the Maranoa District ? I am not aware of it.
14. There is a detachment on the Darling ? Not belonging to the Native Police Corps.
15. Where are the detachments that were under your control—where were they placed ? The division for the Clarence was stationed on the Clarence River as their head quarters.
16. What was the Force of that division ? One Second Lieutenant, one Sub-lieutenant, and twelve troopers.
17. That at Wide Bay and the Burnett you have described already ? No; that was the Port Curtis and Leichhardt division ; but the strength of the Wide Bay and Burnett Corps is just the same. :
18. I suppose you hold it as a principle that the Native Police should move on further into the interior as population advances ? Yes.
19. I believe there is a proposition before you to move the detachment at Wandai Gumbal . out farther ? Yes, about fifty miles.
20. Do you think it is worth while to move them fifty miles, bearing in mind the expense of establishing a new station, and the probability that they would soon have to move on again ? I think not. That is exactly the principle on which I declined to recommend the removal.
21. You are aware that the Bungle—to which it is proposed they should remove—forms part of the district they are now protecting I have understood so.
22. And you think it would not be worth while to go to the expense of moving the detachment so short a distance ? I think 80—that it would not justify the expense. I think it better to wait until the necessity arises for their removal to a greater distance onward. Then they should remove, but not before.
23. This Maranoa country extends only to the Ambie and the Grafton Range ? I believe so.
24. You are aware that as soon as another district is proclaimed beyond any of the existing boundaries, settlers immediately go and take up the country ? Yes.
25. The Maranoa country being now occupied, and the settlers anxious to go out into the country to the north, do you not think, if this detachment is to be moved at all, it should be moved far enough out to keep quiet not only the country that has been protected, but to be in a position to protect the settlers who go beyond them, and save the necessity for another removal a short time afterwards ? Certainly.
26. By Mr. Macleay: Do you think that each division of the Native Police should be under the command of an officer of their own ? Yes; I think so.
27. Then you disapprove of the system of placing them under the Commissioners of Crown Lands, as has been done in the southern districts? I have always understood that they have white Sergeants.
28. In the north country you have done away with white Sergeants altogether ? It is merely nominal; it is giving them a different name, because, the holders of these offices have to discharge precisely the same duties.
29. By Mr. Buckley : Do you think any Native Police Force is requisite on the Clarence? I was of opinion that they were not, but the representations made to me on the subject have been such that I have always felt a difficulty in withdrawing them, although I could hardly reconcile their remaining there with the view of the Legislature, in which, as I have said, I concurred. Although there has been no instance of loss of life in that district, there have been very serious outrages; two cases of rape have been reported; and there have been repeated remonstrances and calls from the residents of the Macleay District for the assistance of the detachment of Native Police from the Clarence.
30. Do you allude to depredations on stock? In the Macleay District there have been constant depredations on stock; and the nature of that country renders white men quite inefficient to stop them.
31. Do you not. think that what you have stated is sufficient to warrant the maintenance of a Force in that locality ? I have not refused to keep them there; I only said I had some difficulty in reconciling it with the view pf the Legislature and my own view. I never thought of withdrawing them. .
32. Are we to infer that you think they could be dispensed with ? I am not prepared to go to that extent. I should have hoped and expected that a district so long occupied would not have required them; but, as I have said, the representations from the Clarence and the Macleay are such that we do not feel justified in dispensing with them.
33. Do you think Port Curtis would be a good place for the head-quarters of the Native Police ? If the Force is handled and used as it should be, I think there never should be any permanent head-quarters. In the Port Curtis District I know they have had very serious collisions with the aborigines. I know they have dealt out very summary punishment to repress their outrages.
'34. Do you not think Port Curtis would be a better position than Brisbane for an officer to reside who might have the general command of the Force—that the head-quarters of the officer in command of the Force should be at Port Curtis ? The head-quarters of the present division are close to Gladstone. 3&. But the officer there, has not the supreme command of the whole Force ? No.
36. Would it not be more desirable to have a person, having the full command of the Force,, resident at Port Curtis instead of placing them under the orders of Captain Wickham, for instance, at Brisbane ? No, I do not think so. It would be very difficult for the other officers to communicate with Port Curtis,. I do not recognise the necessity for a Commandant of the Force at all. The principle I acted upon. with them was to place the. fullest and widest discretion in the hands of each officer, and to discourage and discountenance referring to me for instructions. I looked to them for the proper management of the men under their command, and for maintaining the peace pf their respective districts, holding them responsible for the exercise of. a. proper discretion.
37. Do you think it desirable to have a person resident at Gladstone for the purpose of the charge of all the stores ? No, I do not think it necessary. The stores for the Port
Curtis District are sent to Gladstone, and the officer makes his own arrangements for their transmission.38. Would it not be well to have a general store, at some central point, for the whole Force ? I think not. The stores must be sent to the respective ports of the districts.
39 We have been told that a person is required to look after the saddlery, and attend to stores of that kind—do you think there would be any economy in having a person of that kind attached to each division ? I do not think so.
40. By Mr. Lang: Do you think some of the blacks should be taught to do that? Yes; I have no doubt they could be taught to do everything but what a really competent saddler could do. You cannot, I think, throw these men too much upon their own resources.
41. By Mr. Buckley: There is great difficulty as to shoeing the horses, which are much distressed in consequence ? I know there is. If the country is a stony one, which I have reason to believe, there in a great difficulty, and one it is almost impossible to meet. I think it might be met to a certain degree by each detachment having shoeing tools, and a few spare shoes and nails with them, and some one of them being taught to put them on. I used to do it constantly myself when I was a Commissioner of Crown Lands. I used constantly to. shoe my own horses. In fact the putting on of the shoes is a thing that every person paying common attention to it can Soon do.
42. By the Chairman : In case of charges being made against any officer of Native Police, how would you propose to proceed with the inquiry when the Force is under the superintendence of an officer residing in Sydney? I would, in case of inquiry being necessary, have the Court held at whatever was the most convenient place where there were officers or gentlemen that could be made to constitute the inquiring body or commission. For instance, as regards the Clarence or the Maranoa, I would recommend that the inquiry should be held by the Government Resident at Brisbane; and in a case arising in the Port Curtis District, by the Police Magistrate at Gladstone. They might hold the inquiry, and transmit the depositions and proceedings, leaving the decision in the hands of the central authority in Sydney) of course subject to the control of the Executive.
43. By Mr. Forster: In speaking of the full discretion which yon would allow to the officers of Native Police in their respective districts, do you imply a discretion to execute warrants whether they please or not ? What description of warrants ?
44. Warrants by Magistrates ? Directed against whom ?
45. Against blacks? Of course they should execute warrants against aborigines, but still subject to a proper discretion in not interfering with other more important and pressing duties.
46. You would allow them a discretion as to the execution of warrants ? As to the immediate execution.
47. But you would! not allow them a discretion as to whether they would put these warrants in force or not at any time ? Certainly not.
48. Are you aware that warrants were issued and were never put in force during the time of Mr. Walker, and that the officers of the Native Police assumed a discretion of that sort? lam not aware of that. My knowledge of matters while the Force was under the control of Mr. Walker is very limited indeed. It is confined simply to matters that still required to be investigated after his dismissal—chiefly matters of account.
49. Are you aware of any case in which the Native Police were employed in the apprehension of white men, in pursuance of warrants issued under the Masters' and Servants' Act, or any other warrants. I am not aware of such a thing. I am aware that there was a com plaint from a settler that they connived at, or did not prevent, the absconding of a white man.
50. I think I gather that you are unfavourable to the Native Police being engaged in apprehending white men? Yes; it is outside the sphere of their proper duty; but in the case of the commission of actual crime, for instance, in a ease of murder, I think they ought to carry out the action of the law, to prevent the escape of the criminal.
51. Are you aware of the regulations that were imposed on the Native Police, in reference to their intercourse with the native tribes during your control of the Force? I recollect perfectly the instructions I gave, and particularly with reference to their interfering with the native women. I gave most positive instructions that they were not to be allowed to interfere with these women, and were not to have any of the women with them, except with the entire and full consent of the tribes, and the individual members of the tribes to whom they might be supposed to belong.
52. Do you know of any case, in the whole Native Police Force under your supervision, where the native women accompanied them all over the country? No, I am not aware of the fact; it has never came to my knowledge.
53. Respecting the permission implied in what you have said, as to the native women being with them with the consent of the tribes to which they belong, do you not think it possible that, although that consent of the tribe might be supposed, it might have been forced from them through fear of the Native Police? That was one of the things I called the attention of the officers' to. If it could have been possible to have prevented it altogether I would have done so, but under the circumstances, I could only endeavour to guard against the evils of the practice.
54. With regard to the late management, since the dismissal of Mr. Walker, have you any reason to believe that the efficiency of the Force has greatly improved, or what is your opinion of it? Everything I could collect from my correspondence with Mr. Marshall gave me the impression that he was a very active, anxious, and zealous officer, and that he carried; out his duty with benefit to the public.
55. My question implies no censure upon Mr. Marshall, but the system may be so bad that it is incapable of efficiency; I wish to know whether, by the substitution of Mr. Marshall for Mr. Walker any improvement has taken place ? I should think there has been improvement. The substitution of a man, such as I have described, for a man who had, to say the least, serious and glaring faults, must have been beneficial.
56. Have you any knowledge of the reasons that led the Government to maintain Mr. Walker in his position so long in opposition to the wishes of the inhabitants? I suppose they must have had a conviction of his competency, until the contrary was shown.
57. Have you had any evidence before you to shew how long his intemperate habits had prevailed ? No.
58. With regard to procuring horses for the Force, what regulations existed—I believe some sort of certificate is required ? The duty of purchasing horses devolved on the officer in charge of each division, and he was instructed to give his own certificate, and, if it were possible to obtain it, the certificate of some Magistrate, that the horses purchased were suitable ones.
59. Are you aware of any case in which a Magistrate gave certificates for some forty horses which had been procured during several weeks, from different individuals, and as to the serviceableness of which horses that Magistrate could not have had any knowledge ? No. I must conclude that a Magistrate signs bond fide, until the contrary is shewn.
60. Yon have had no complaints to that effect ? No.
61. What is your idea as to the relative expense of a Native Police Force, and a Force composed of white men, we will say similar numbers; do you think the expense of a Native Police Force would be smaller or greater than the expense of a body of white men ? Much. less, unquestionably.
62. Taking every circumstance into account, the wear and tear of accoutrements, for instance, may I ask you whether it would be greater ? The wear and tear of accoutrements is considerably greater in the case of a Native Police, no doubt; but the pay is very much less, in fact it is merely nominal, 3d. a day; while that of white men would not be less than 5s. 6d.per diem.
63. You think the efficiency you obtain from the Native Police is obtained at much less cost than it would be from white men? Yes, and the duty is one you could not get performed by white men. '
64. What would you think of the proposal to have a white mounted Police Force, smaller in number than the Native Police, attended by a certain number of blacks as trackers; what do you think would be the efficiency of a Force of that kind ? It would be more expensive, and I do not think it would be so efficient in dealing with the Aborigines when they come into collision, because the blacks would go into places where white men would be perfectly helpless:
65. Are you of opinion that the Native Police should be subject to the local authorities not connected with the central Government, or not ? Not unless the two Governments are separated; if they are, the Government at Brisbane would become a separate Government in itself. I think there ought to be an authority in some central place of Government to which the Native Police should be subject.
66. Do you think any officer in the nature of a municipal officer should have any authority over them? No, I do not.
67. You are of opinion that, in case of a separation of the Governments, Brisbane would be the proper place for the supreme authority over this Force ? I think so.
68. You think Brisbane a better place than either Gladstone or Maryborough ? I do.
69. What is your reason for thinking that an authority further removed from the scene of action, Brisbane being more distant than Maryborough for instance, would exercise a more efficient control? The means of communication with Brisbane are at least equal from all the outposts, and they are greater both from the Maranoa and the Clarence.
70. But you would not say they are greater from the Leichhardt District ? There is very little communication between the Leichhardt and Wide Bay.
71. Do you mean that there could not be a better communication than with Brisbane ? You would have to establish the means.
72. By Mr. Lang: Do you not think that the Native Police Force, the greater part of which lies chiefly in the Wide Bay and Burnett Districts, and in the Leichhardt District, would be more immediately under the command of a central authority at Wide Bay than at Brisbane, which is far to the south both of Wide Bay and Port Curtis ? I do not think so, with reference to the means of communication which exist.
73. When the country becomes settled, as it is doing every day, and when there is a population at the back of Wide Bay equal, as I have no doubt it will be to the population of Moreton Bay, means of communication will be established equal to those with Brisbane itself? You are pre-supposing that there should be a Commandant of this Force alone; but I think the direction of this Force ought to be combined with the central authority; wherever the head-quarters of the central Government are, I think the central authority for the Native Police ought to be.
74. By Mr. Forster: I think you said there was very little necessity for a Native Police Force in the Clarence District ? I said I had hoped and expected that a District so long occupied would have been in a situation to dispense with such a Force, but that the representations made by the inhabitants went to prove the contrary.
75. Do you not think there is a much greater necessity for their presence in the Burnett and Wide Bay District than in the Clarence ? I should think so. But I may mention that constant representations have been made of the danger to life and property, from the attacks of the aborigines, in the immediate neighbourhood of Brisbane, at a place called Sandgate, for instance.
76. Do you not think the central authority would be better placed as near as possible to the more obvious scene of operation!? If you had a central authority for that force alone it might be.
77. What would you say to a proposal to place a certain number of Native Troopers under the orders of each Bench of Magistrates, or of the Commissioners of Crown Lands ? I think they would become entirely inefficient.
78. What is your reason for supposing they would become inefficient? Being constantly about the head-quarters of the Benches of Magistrates or Commissioners, they would be subject to a variety of temptations, which would all tend to deteriorate them and render them inefficient.
79. I am supporting that they would be placed entirely under the control of the Magistrates, that is, that their officers should be under the orders of the Local Magistracy, who would locate wherever they might be most required ? I think you would find it very difficult to carry out such a scheme, because it is very natural that each Magistrate should, when outrages by the Aborigines were prevalent in the locality, think his own part of the district the one most exposed and most calling for their operations, and thus there would be no unanimity in their direction.
80. Why have not the same causes operated unfavourably on the ordinary Police as would operate on them? I look upon the ordinary Police as very inefficient from that very cause, the want of system.
81. You think the system of obedience to a central authority might be applied to both with good effect ? Yes, without question ; it is what I have all along contended for.
82. Do you think the inefficiency of the Native Police has not been in any way caused by the virtual irresponsibility of the Commandant in former days? I am not aware that he was virtually irresponsible; I have always considered that he was strictly responsible to the Executive.
83. Are you not aware that the circumstances which have occurred are such as to lead to the conclusion that he was to all intents and purposes irresponsible ? I have nothing before me to show it. Representations were made to the Government that Mr. Walker, the late Commandant, had fallen into habits of great intemperance, that incapacitated him from performing his duties properly. The Government determined upon holding an inquiry into these and other charges, which were preferred against him by Officers of the Corps; and when the Board of Inquiry met at Brisbane, Mr. Walker presented himself before them in a state that rendered it impossible for them to proceed with the inquiry. They therefore, reported what had occurred to the Government, and discontinued further proceedings, whereupon Mr. Walker was immediately dismissed.
84. Do you mean to imply that because a person accused, presents himself before the Court in a state of intoxication, that is to prevent them from going on with the inquiry? I think you are drawing an inference you are not justified in drawing from what I said; but I think Mr. Walker's appearance in such a state did, under the circumstances, fully justify them in stopping the inquiry and reporting it to the Government, and also that it fully justified the Government in dismissing him.
85. Are you not of opinion that some good might have been done by going on with the inquiry? ' I think it might have been possible for the Board to have taken the evidence, but it was to be borne in mind, that taking the evidence in the absence of the man charged is wholly opposed to British principle.
86. If I understand you rightly, the decision was given upon his incompetency to attend the investigation ? He was dismissed for his impropriety of conduct in appearing before the Board in the state he did.
$7.. By the Chairman : Are you aware whether the Government instituted an inquiry into Mr. Walker's conduct as soon as they became aware of the charges made against him? My impression is that they did; in the case I refer to, I recollect seeing the representations, made by Mr. Marshall and other officers, and I believe the inquiry was instituted immediately.
TUESDAY, 25 NOVEMBER, 1856.
Present:-
Mr. BUCKLEY, Mr. HELY,
Mr. LANG, Mr. P. T. RUSDEN, Mr. SANDEMAN.
GORDON SANDEMAN, Esquire, in the Chair.
Charles Archer, Esquire, J. P., called in and examined :—
I. By the Chairman: You are a resident of the Leichhardt District? Of the Port Curtis District.
2. You are a Magistrate of the Territory ? Yes.
3. You were formerly resident in the Moreton and Burnett Districts ? I had resided in the Burnett District before I went out to Port Curtis.
4. And in the Moreton District also ? Yes.
5. Hew many years have you resided in the Northern Districts altogether ? Thirteen, or fourteen years.
6. Have you had much experience among, the native blacks ? I have been at the forming of six new stations, outside stations in the outlying districts, and, of course, 1 have had some experience with the blacks.
7. Have you had much trouble in protecting the lives of your men from their attacks, and your property from their depredations ? Yes, I have had a great deal of trouble in that way, but I have been very fortunate in not losing men, although I have lost a good deal of property—stock, and so on.
8. Do yon consider that the establishment of the Native Police Force tended to put a stop to the depredations that originally existed in the Northern Districts ? I think that in the Burnett District, where I was at the time the Native Police Force was formed, the progress of the squatters would have been arrested altogether if it had not been for the establishment of the force,—or I would rather say, not arrested altogether, but greatly retarded, if the force had not been established.
9. Is the Native Police as effective now as it was on the first establishment of the Force, and for some time afterwards ? I think it is not so effective.
10. To what do you attribute the altered or lessened efficiency of the Force ? I attribute it, in the first instance, to the hold that the late Commandant, Mr. Walker, got over the men, at the expense of the authority of the other officers. He pampered the men under his immediate command, and the men under the other officers who had not the means of treating them in the same way, disliked the officers immediately over them ; they all looked up to the Commandant, and when he was removed the other officers had not the same control over them that he had had. And since then the head of the Force being placed in Sydney has been greatly against its efficiency. ;'
11. Are you aware of the causes that occasioned the dismissal of the first Commandant of the Force ? I know what they were by report.
12. What were they ? Intemperate habits, I believe, and irregularity in his accounts, are what I understood to be the causes of it
13. Do you think that if timely investigation had been made into that officer's conduct, the evils attendant upon that conduct, in the mismanagement of the Force, might have been prevented? I do not think the evil would have gone so far; it might have been checked sooner perhaps, but the Force was not completely formed for a long time after he was in charge, and we were always in hopes that when all his arrangements were properly carried out it would be more efficient under his command than it had been. His intemperate habits did not shew themselves all at once, and of course no private individual was aware of any irregularity in his accounts. .
14. You think that if it had not been for his intemperate habits the Force would have been more efficient under his command than it was, or than it has been since? Yes; if he had been a man of temperate habits, a correct accountant, and good man of business, he was admirably fitted for his post in other respects, and he could have managed it very well; but he never could have managed it unless he had been on the spot. .
15. Who succeeded Mr. Walker as Commandant? Mr. Marshall acted for some short time.
16. The appointment was then abolished ? Yes. I do not think Mr. Marshall was ever : properly appointed Commandant; he merely acted.
17. Are you aware of the reasons which actuated the Government in doing away with the office of Commandant? I believe it was considered that the Force would be better managed by placing the supreme authority in Sydney, and making each officer responsible for the manner in which the duties of the Force were performed in his own district.
18.After the abolition of the Commandantship the Force was placed under the supervision of the Inspector General of Police, in Sydney ? Yes, I understood so. :
19. What has been the effect of that change in the management of the Force—do you think it has been injurious or otherwise ? We must remember that the Force was badly managed before, but its efficiency has certainly not been improved by the late arrangement. I think the appointment of a head in the district itself would have had the effect of improving the Force very much, whereas by appointing the head here it has not been improved at all.
20. What is the average distance of the positions in the Northern Districts; where the Police are employed from Sydney? I atn not very well acquainted with them all. .
21. Take the most central station where, the Police are employed? I think the most centrical part would be about seven hundred miles from Sydney ; I could not speak positively.
22. There are other parts that are further away ? Yes, I think my station, where there are four Policemen, is about nine hundred miles from Sydney.
23. What is the distance from Sydney of the farthest outlying district where the Police are now ? I think about nine hundred miles ; I do not mean in a direct line, but travelling on the ordinary lines of communication.
24. Do you believe it possible that a Force like the Native Police can be managed by an officer residing in Sydney ? No, I believe not, when a man of Captain Mayne's ability has failed, and, I think, the attempt to manage it from Sydney must be pronounced a failure. I do not see how it is possible that a person who is not intimately acquainted with the localities and the features of the country, or a person not acquainted with the blacks, and where the places are that require protection, can arrange the distribution of the Force satisfactorily; he mast be on the spot, seeing everything every day.
25. Do you think it could be managed by an officer residing at Brisbane? I think it could be ; but I think it could be more easily managed by an officer residing in a more central situation: it could be better managed from Brisbane than from Sydney.
26. Do you think it desirable that the head of the Force should be stationary, or, that he should travel from one locality to another ? I think the head of the Force ought to have his head quarters in a centrical position, and ought occasionally to visit the different Police stations.
27. You consider that the Force cannot be efficiently managed without an officer as local head ? I do.
28. Do you consider that a clerk should be attached to the department of the local head ? Yes, I think so. At head-quarters there should be a clerk who should always reside there, and who should be able to carry on the correspondence- in the absence of the local head, or could at all events know where the correspondence could reach him, in case of any emergency, , when absent from head-quarters. Besides, the accounts ought to be managed by a proper accountant
29. We have understood that there bag been a great deal of difficulty and irregularity in
getting supplies of clothing and other articles ? That has arisen from the bad arrangements of the late Commandant; he always had the clothing sent to head-quarters and brought in the various divisions to receive their clothing, sometimes making the horses travel two hundred miles there and two hundred miles back again, merely for the purpose of receiving the clothing; and they have sustained more injury in that way than from several weeks' service, as Police.30. By Mr. Lang: More than the whole value of the clothes ? Much more.
31. By the Chairman : Would it be desirable to have a barrack or store in each district from which clothing and other articles might be supplied? Any store near some shipping port would do. I think each division ought to have its depot at the shipping port nearest where the division is stationed, but I do not think any buildings should be erected by the Government, because the Force might be moved to some other place at any moment; for, I suppose, that as squatting progresses, the Police will be moved further out.
32. At the time the office of Commandant was abolished, or some .short time after, a portion of
the Force was disbanded ? I heard of it, but it did not come under my immediate knowledge. I know an offer was made to some of the Police to be sent back to their own country if they wished to go; and, I believe, some of them did accept of the offer, and others consented to remain with the Force; but I know also that after the late Commandant was dismissed,ia-. considerable body of Police was raised by order of the Inspector General, I think, which order was countermanded again, and they were turned adrift on the country.33. Where were they recruited from ? From Wide Bay principally, I think. They were brought up to Traylan, the head-quarters in the Burnett District, and drilled for a short time,
and when Mr. Marshall found that there was no provision made for the pay and feeding of these men, he, of course, was obliged to disband them.34. Have any bad effects resulted from this ? I have not been living in that part of thjs country recently, and therefore I cannot speak of my own knowledge, but I have heard that there were great complaints that the men were disbanded without their Police clothes having been taken from them, and that they represented themselves as Policemen and got rations supplied to them in that belief at different stations.
35. Do you not think the men should be recruited in districts at some distance from that in which it is intended to employ them? Yes, I think so. I think the men recruited on the Clarence for instance might be employed in the Port Curtis District, and vice versa. They-should be recruited in districts far removed from where they are intended to serve.
36. I think yon said part of the Force has been disbanded ? Yes, but they had only been enlisted for a short time—those that had been enlisted at Wide Bay. Some others have been disbanded lately; but I understood your question to allude to those disbanded immediately! I after the late Commandant was dismissed.
37. Or afterwards ? Some have been disbanded lately.
38. Are you aware what have been the consequences of that step? I am aware that the.
amount of protection afforded to the outlying districts has been less.39. By Mr. Rusden: Do you think that in recruiting men for the Native Police, attention should be paid to their being able to converse or communicate in their own language with the tribes in the neighbourhood where they are to be employed ? No doubt natives from distance are not able to communicate very readily; but it is a singular circumstance that families twenty miles apart often speak a totally different language. Even different families in the same camp will tell you different names for the same thing, but they find no difficulty in understanding each other.
40. They soon acquire it ? Yes.
41. By the Chairman: You consider that the Force should be augmented? Decidedly.
42. What is the extent of the Leichhardt District, or the country in that district over which licenses have been applied for to depasture stock? From the head of the Dawson to the head of the Isaacs is from three to four hundred miles The Leichhardt District is considerably larger than England, and very nearly as large as England and Scotland.
43. What number of officers and troopers do you think would be requisite to protect a district of that size ? Do you mean as the district is now, or to make allowances for the progress of squatting ?
44 For the requirements at present existing ? I think thirty men might do it.
45. That would be about three sections; a section generally consists of twelve men, I believe ? Thirty-six would be better than thirty.
46. How many officers are there to each section of twelve men—are you aware ? To each division' of twenty-four men, there are supposed to be a First and Second Lieutenant, and one or two Sub-lieutenants, I am not sure which. These Sub-lieutenants are, I believe, in the place of Sergeants, and only receive about the same pay. It was found that the men had not the slightest respect for white men in the capacity of Sergeants, who went into the huts on the stations they visited and associated with the men they found there on an equal footing. I believe that was the reason why the white Sergeants were done away with, and it was thought advisable to get respectable young men to whom the Police would look up as gentlemen, under the name of Sub-lieutenants.
47. Do you think that was an improvement? Yes, if the Sub-lieutenants received pay which would induce men capable of performing the duties to en